Oral Testimony of MPYISI Esdras

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  •  Habyarimana Juvenal 
  •  Haroi 
  •  Kayumba 
  •  Kigeli 
  •  Mayuya 
  •  Mbonyumutwa 
  •  Musinga 
  •  Ncongoza 
  •  Ndahindurwa 
  •  Nshogoza 
  •  Nyerere 
  •  Musinga 
  •  Perraudin 
  •  Rwampungu 
 
View Places 
  •  Akagera 
  •  Bujumbura 
  •  Gitarama 
  •  Kibungo Hospital 
  •  Kigeli 
  •  Kinshasa 
  •  Mwima 
  •  Nyamirambo/Biryogo 
  •  Nyanza (go to page) 
  •  Tanganyika 
 
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View Translation 
  •  Continued from KMC00019-sub1 (some missing footage) 
  •  Mpyisi: ...we know that very well. We also know who advised him to do that. 
  •  Rudahigwa went to Bujumbura for a passport; Its clear lighted how badly was organized the power, he went to apply for his passport. Can a president apply for a passport in foreigners? They controlled whatever their own way. He had kept it with him as secret but finally he had no other way because he had to apply for a passport, and to submit to Belgians. He had to tell the whole story to get the passport. They came to know the whole story. 
  •  Haroi was in Bujumbura, he told an American who was to go with Rudahigwa: ‘Please ask him to allow me to come with you." [With an intention of messing up the whole story.] The American told Rudahigwa and Rudahigwa refused because he knew that he just wanted to mess up everything. Rudahigwa died from Bujumbura where he had gone for his passport to go to America. They saw the whole scene but had no way out, they lost. 
  •  That time citizens loved Rudahigwa. When drinking beer from a pot after digging or building they left a straw for Rudahigwa. Poor Tutsi and other citizens were convinced that Rudahigwa saved them and left his straw, even though he was never there. This is a symbol of how much Rwanda and Rwandese loved him. You might not know how Rwandese felt after they heard about his death; he died from Burundi ready to go to America. The worst of it is that he died without fighting….how can I define that death? It's up to you! And he was in hand of Belgian medical doctors, he went normal driving himself. He died for the country as his father did. They just say that it was the right time for him to die maybe. 
  •  For those who were not here, things mast up. Hutu, Tutsi… wanted to revenge for their king," we have to revenge for our king "and Belgians are behind his death. They were wise enough to calm them down, but it was a hard issue. 
  •  Belgians had planned who was to follow after the death of Rudahigwa. They had to choose among 2 people, there was one Tutsi who was a criminal and another Hutu (naming no names); "if not this one then that one, you choose whom you want to be the president'. Belgians saidThey transported Rudahigwa's body from Bujumbura to Nyanza. Many people went to make their farewells. 
  •  It was now time to bury the king; they buried him there at Mwima, near his home. The tomb existed already, many people came to his funeral, Haroi the governor was also there, and he's the one who was ruling. The mass was represented by a chief called NSHOGOZA. There was a mass of people. The mother of the king, kankazi was also there. Tutsi, Hutu all crying!! 
  •  Haroi took a speech and said: ‘listen fellow Rwandese, we are heartbroken, he lied that he was heart broken, the king is dead, we are now going to bury him and will there after decide on who's to sit on the throne. In the Rwandan culture it was forbidden to bury a king without appointing the one to replace him. That's the Rwandese culture since long. I went to England and found that it's also the same. They can not bury their king unless the one to follow on the throne is appointed. 
  •  "We are going to bury the king then after we are to sit and decide on who is going to follow on the throne." Harroi told the mass. Rwandese shouted that that couldn't happen. In our culture, we can't bury our king unless the one to follow on the throne is appointed. 
  •  Things become worse; they had recruited solders from Congo, there ready with their guns. Haroii was well dressed in white, briefly things turned into a mess. They went straight to the Governor Haroi and told him that it could not happen.People cried, things turned worse. Some Rwandese told Haroi: ‘we know, these soldiers are here to shoot us but we are many thousands, it might happen to kill a thousand but the survivors will kill you.' They cleared the everything to him, and all Rwandese were united apart from same who were behind Belgians. 
  •  It was a mess, everybody there was ready to die. They are people who appeared from nowhere, from bushes with their bows. This was a group of minor and lowered citizens, poor citizens that had suffered and mistreated. 
  •  There is one who found himself in the middle of bows and spears. You can't imagine what a mess happened at Mwima! Some were convinced that it couldn't happen, whispering to each other and others were like: ‘there is nothing we can do'Rukeba who should be counted among Rwandese heroes, accepted to be the leader of UNAR. All the leaders told him that being the leader of UNAR meant nothing else than being killed by Belgians. ‘Let them kill me as UNAR's leader". Rukeba answered. It had no leader because it wasn't straight focused; All the leaders feared. 
  •  It's not a tale, I was there myself. Rukeba stood up and declared himself as the leader of UNAR. Being the leader of UNAR simply meant death. He accepted to die like Rudahigwa and Musinga. Is Rukeba remembered? [How about his acts?] What he did saved life of many Rwandeses; you can't finish the Rwandan history. Things can turn bad! 
  •  There at Mwima, after things mast up Rukeba stood up and went straight to Haroi. All Rwandese were in a deep silence. ‘Haroi, you are Belgian, not Rwandese' he told him ‘How can you mess up our culture? ‘Let us do our own things". Ncongoza translated to Haroi. ‘I am going to jail you' Haroi told him.' I am not ready to go to prison, I am ready to die and if you kill me, all of the people you see here will kill you" 
  •  It was a serious battle!Rukeba went on with elections. ‘Rwandese people over here, do you agree with him to bury our king without appointing the one to follow on the throne….they did not even let him finish, they shouted all saying ‘Rukeba'! Is he remembered! Does anyone know him? 
  •  Some of the Rwandan history is hidden or overlaid. This is what led to Genocide, to over lay the history. Not to speak the truth. Two sons' of Rukeba died on war fighting for coming back to Rwanda. Rukeba had left the country with them. They died on war as many of inkotanyi died on war. They were brave like their father. 
  •  They voted, Haroi looked around and around, ‘I accept, let us appoint the one to follow on the throne.' He agreed. Haroi said that what they had planned in more than ten years had failed in less than 10 minutes, we had planned to appoint the president but they want the king back. Rukeba won, they shouted of joy. 
  •  The one who was in charge of knowing the succession of kings was called Umwiru [king's advisor]. A king never told clearly the one to follow him on throne, he only told the ‘Abiru'. There was a chief of Abiru called Kayumba, son of Rwampugungu who was a chief. Kayumba was to tell the one to follow on throne. Rwandan culture is not a deal of all people; there were specified people for anything. 
  •  Even now you have to submit to the authority and let them do what they have to do; all of us want rule or lead. It never happened and it won't happen. 
  •  Kayumba stood up and appointed NDAHINDURWA Jean Baptist to follow him [Rudahigwa] on throne, and the name of the kingship is KIGELI III. They shouted of joy, lifted him up, he was still a small boy; Haroi went as a failure him and his soldiers. 
  •  They appointed the new king, they then buried Rudahigwa. Kigali casts on the throne but Belgians were still ruling! He [the white] didn't change, lost at Mwima but you shall see another time. 
  •  Time came when the war was declared, they misled people into war, those who were on their side, and the battle threw up! The 59 war, that of 60's, people died, the first Genocide started. Before, people couldn't die this much! Why? Because he had lost and he ordered them to kill! You don't know politics; it can lead you to do what you didn't want. 
  •  Haroi didn't want people to kill each other, politics is very bad, you can reach the point of doing what you didn't intend to do. Be attentive once you dive into politics carelessly. Haroi didn't intend… He intended to reign or rule. He didn't intend to kill us but politics led him to the point of killing, as he had lost, he had to use the one and only weapon that he remained with; that is the weapon he had. 
  •  Yeah, politics is a dirty came for sure, it can lead you where you did not intend to reach. He ordered to kill. The Whites brought all their guns, they thrashed over UNAR. Oh, oh, oh, in a terrible way! They jailed all governors, things become worse. They gave out whatever as they wanted as Bwanakweli did, the one who gave to the others, I mean Tutsis, but he is now giving out to malicious [killers]. Guess on what level he was up to then? Before they had no conflicts between them.People were promised un believable things, killing came after, that's how it went and UNAR lost. 
  •  That's how Kigeli went, those who were to die, died and things became worse and worse. That's how we became refugees. 
  •  Martin: That's when people started leaving the county. 
  •  Mpyisi: Yes…. many died, others died in different prisons, and things became a mess!! Who was behind all this? Not the Hutu. Belgians were behind all this but used the Hutu. Hutu didn't drive out Kigeli; Hutu didn't drive out Tutsi, No. 
  •  Its Peraudin and Belgians. His father [Peraudin's] was still alive by that time, who was he? They appointed KAYIBANDA in order to use him, he ruled in their place. 
  •  But the independence that Rudahigwa claimed for was now proclaimed! It was signed from UN! Rudahigwa's independence! KAYIBANDA and his people told Belgians ‘lead us more than 400 years but deprive us of Tutsis'." For us we don't want independence". Just help us cast on the throne and then we let you rule. That's the deal between him [Kayibanda] Haroi and Peraudin. 
  •  This was the time to proclaim independence; KAYIBANDA was there on the throne. But, first it was Mbanyumutwa's sit. UN headquarters stated that they wouldn't proclaim independence unless those who are outside the country come back and choose for themselves if they want the king back or vote for Kayibanda. 
  •  Those who had stayed in Rwanda refused to vote Kigeli being outside the county. And Kigeli wouldn't come of course, because he would die. He was in Tanzania. 
  •  At the right time he also died for the country [Rwanda]. They passed by Akagera, arrived there, there were soldiers placed by Belgians and Hutus. From where was he going to cross? 
  •  They tried to fiddle it: they dressed him in women style and put other clothes on his berry and pretended to play a pregnant woman. They carried him saying they are taking him to Kibungo hospital. "Please help us, we are carrying a pregnant woman who's about to give birth"they begged the soldiers. They bought them beers and helped them to cross. That's how Kigeli crossed and came back to Rwanda. There was a car waiting for him on the other side, that's how he crossed pretending to be a pregnant woman because there was no other way. It was a suicidal game but as they had refused to vote once he is outside the country, he just had to make it. 
  •  When he reached Rwanda, Kigeli stayed in Rukeba's small house, here in Nyamirambo / Biryogo. That's where Rukeba had a small house and he had also left his county. He stayed in that small house.Belgians came to know that he is back and arrested him. 
  •  "There are no elections' they told him, yet UN had declared elections. They put him in an helicopter to Bujumbura,‘We are taking you to Kinshasa where you had gone, you'll die from there'. They told him. Elections stopped!And you judge him for not doing this and that. How could he do that? At least he came, knowing that he was going to die.Is this known? Some take him to be fool. Whoever judges him to be fool, time will came for him to be treated as a fool. 
  •  He was then going to die! His followers and loved ones came to know, the story reached to Nyerere. Nyerere sent a message to Haroi' Kigeli is my refugee, if he dies, I will close Tanganyika, you will no longer use Tanganyika for you Goods. (they were independent) and break up with Rwanda' 
  •  Haroi talked to his people. "Things have now reached a higher step' he told them. We can't kill him. We should have killed him from Kigali. There, at least we could say that a snake bit him. What do we do? That's how Kigeli got saved. They sent him to Nyerere, that's how he left Rwanda. He never came back. 
  •  Many died, others were jailed and others died outside the country. KAYIBANDA took over the power, him and Peraudin. The world changes, he ruled over the whole Rwanda. 
  •  Time came…. let me tell you, this world is bad and wicked! Whom he had appointed to be the chief of general staff is the one who killed him. KAYIBANDA wasn't knocked down by a Tutsi he was knocked out by a Hutu, his relative. Kigeli also wasn't knocked down by a Rwandese but the Belgians. Things are different, KAYIBANDA is knocked down by a Hutu, given to him but kigeli was knocked out by Belgians not Rwandese. But it happened to both. 
  •  Briefly under Kayibanda's reign, he killed and he saved. A Tutsi was then in obscurity and neglected. Habyarimana took over; he was master in name only, named the parent of Rwanda. You know how many years he ruled! 
  •  That time the capital city of the kingdom was Nyanza, when going to Gitarama and now the capital of Gitarama went back to Nyanza, how can you define this? How did Gitarama shift to Nyanza again? Rwandan history is very educating for one who wants to learn from history. Those who ignore are Rwandese, will always remain faulty and defective. 
  •  Time comes and things happen! Some time back, we went to Nyanza for the ceremonies of introduction of the new Governor. Gikongoro was there, Butare was there but no Gitarama, they all went to Nyanza; Nyanza once changed name to Nyabisindu and turned into a bush. But now, check out, the roads are clean. 
  •  Do any know where this world is leading us? Just don't go carelessly only the Bible can give you a clear way. Those who don't have that book are like dead-alive, me I don't have the Rwandan history in mind. Without it [the bible], do you think you can manage saying what I say? 
  •  Habyarimana led up to the extent of being named the parent of Rwanda. This was a period during which the Rwandese living outside the country could come in without any problem. 
  •  Politics is dirty game: Habyarimana was loved by all citizens including the Tutsi. But this was a situation in which he implemented what he couldn't even dream of. Non politicians can think that killing was prepared long ago. 
  •  They had only planed to take away their belongings, to make them become poor but not killing. But politics can lead you where you didn't want to go. Back to Kayibanda. How did he die? Rudahigwa was buried but KAYIBANDA didn't! Was this known? HAROI was under buried. Is there any way to visit Kayibanda's grave? But that of Rudahigwa is visited up to now. Kigeli is in exile but still alive, be careful about the Rwanda History. 
  •  HAROI died regretting, I have a book he wrote, he regretted and felt guilty about what he wrote. Doing evil is really bad. KAYIBANDA is then finished and his reign; Habyarimana casts on the throne. The throne drove out from Gitarama. To Bishiru in Bakiga [one of the Rwandan's clans]. 
  •  This world changes. And the Bible says that all the empires will vanish. The Holy Book revealed that longtime ago. The empire of Nyanza vanished, that of Gitarama vanished and shifted to Bushiru from Bushiru to Kigali, why not from Kigali to Nyanza or Rwamagana. And those will also vanish. Habyarimana ruled. 
  •  The spies' time came; those presumed accomplices were Hutus, and their relatives. Have you heard about the death of Mayuya? Who killed him and his relatives?You don't know politics; it can lead you to kill your child without that intention. The death of Mayuya! 
  •  Martin: Without interrupting you, by that time of Mayuya's death, you were still in Rwanda... 
  •  Mpyisi: We were outside the country but we could know everything. I came back few years ago in 1996. 
  •  Martin: You fled out of the country in 1960? 
  •  Mpyisi: The time of presumed accomplices took an end, Innocent Tutsis died, Habyarimana's closed Hutu advisers were killed as he had done for those of KayiBanda. He killed his people. Politics is a dirty game. Without that bad intention! People perished and things became worse. 
  •  Now we are entering the Genocide age, but remember we started from the Germans time, kingship, we talked about Belgians. Talked about Musinga, Rudahigwa, Kigeli, we talked about Mbonyumutwa, talked about Kayibanda, get the whole succession of them and now we are talking of Habyarimana's age. For us, we are outside the country. 
  •  There is the time that we were really convinced that it won't be possible for us to come back to Rwanda. But this was God's time!Genocide occurred, this is from near age but it had started since Rwabugiri's age, since Germans and Belgians age! Elders use to tell us that Belgians had said that they will reduce Rwanda to ashes! The time reached! And he used Rwandese to reduce Rwanda to ashes! 
  •  Genocide occurred and hit, they did evil and atrocities. Drive yourself in bad politics ready for consequences. You can reach where you thought not to reach. 
 
Table of Contents 
  •  Continued From KMC00019-sub1 
  •  History of Rwanda
  •  Influence of Rudahigwa 
  •  Influence of Haroi 
  •  Independence 
  •  Influence of Habyraimana 
  •  
 

Identifier mike:Kmc00019-sub2-eng-glifos
Title:Oral Testimony of MPYISI Esdras
Description:The oral testimony of Rwandan Elder, MPYISI Esdras, pastor with the Seventh Day Adventist church, recorded by the Kigali Genocide Memorial in Kigali, Rwanda. The testimony is given in Kinyarwanda, with English transcript and subtitles available.
Date:2007-08-03
Media formats:mini-DV tape
 MovingImage
Language:kin

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Continues from Part 1 of the Oral History Testimony of MPYISI Esdras.