Oral Testimony of MUZUNGU Bernardini
Share this video
Search
Table of Contents
- Rwandan leaders
- Inequality
- Disagreement with colonialists
- African religion
- Denial of independence
- Political parties
- Divisionism among people
- Governments
- Catholic Priests
- Killing of Tutsis
View Map
View Topics
- Racial Identification
- Ethnicity
- Harassment and Humiliation
- Rwandan culture
- Clan
- Independence
- Political parties
- Divisionism
- Involvement of Catholic churches
View People
- Bisangwabyarugombibituri
- Basketi
- Rudahigwa
- Musinga
- N'krumah
- Kenyatta
- Haile Sellassie
- Rudahigwa
- Lumumba
- Rwagasore
- Guy Logiest
- Kayibanda
- Leopord
- Peraudin
- Pages
- Arnold
- Classe
- Kankazi
- Habyarimana
- Focas
View Places
- Kinshasa
- Africa
- America
- Asia
- Ghana
- Sudan
- Angola
- Kigali
- Congo
- Nyakibanda
- Nyanza
- Shyogwe
- Uganda
- Bufumbira
- Rwaza
- Rambura
- Arusha
Ubuhamya Bwanditse
- Muzungu: ndetse noneho ibyo ari byari abantu byari imi imyuga babihi babishyiran' amategeko, babishyira no mu mpapuro. Nibwo bahimbye impa, bashyiraho impapuro.
- Muzungu: rero bandikaho rero ngo umuntu akitwa UMUHUTU UMUTUTSI UMUTWA ndetse ukaba wasanga umu, umu ubwoko rero Umututsi ufite Inka cumi akaba yarari Umututsi ufite munsi ariko ufite nkeya akaba abaye Umuhutu utagira na busa akaba Umutwa donc bifata bityo. Ibyo rero bihinduka ubwoko rero babihi babishyira no mu maraso ye mbe ariko mbyita, n'uko byahindutse ibya ari umwuga byari iki bihindutse amoko, urumva ibyo bintu rero uko bije, uko uko bibaye ubutegetsi bubaye butyo rero. Hanyuma baba b'Abategetsi bacu eh niho biza guhindukira rero urumva ubutegetsi babuhaye, babuhariye bamwe kandi ubundi kera barabusangiraga mbabwiye y'uko biranditse ndagite n'agatabo nakabereka ubungubu.
- Muzungu: Abanyazwe kri icyo gihe aba sous chefs b'Abatwa amazina yabo ariho nayabereka, naho Abahutu bari benshi turabizi n'abatware b'Umwami b'ingenzi ba BISANGWABYARUGOMBIBITURI bari Abahutu, yemwe n'Abatwa bariya ba BASIKETI mujya mubumva n'iki. Ikindi cya kabiri nyine ngo mbibutse abantu baza gushakisha bavuga ngo n'Amoko hari ikintu abantu bose bibagirwa mujye mugitekereza namwe, ubundi mu kinyarwanda mu muco wacu umwana akurikiza ubwoko bwa Se ,wa Se ntakurikiza ubwa Nyina ariko iyo ubihinduye ubwoko rero mu by'ukuri yari akwiriye gukurikiza n'ubwa nyina iyaba bwabaga ari Ubwoko bw'amaraso yakwi yarakwiriye yarakwiriza n'ubwa Nyina. Bikaba byarabyaye y'uko habaho nyine abo nk'abo twita Ibyima ni nkaba bavukiye ku kuri babiri.
- Muzungu: bashakanya abana babyaye ba bari bakwiye kuba nk'ubungubu bara bifite uko byitwa bakabyita babita Miratre n'iki ndetse n'igihe cya cyo hafi ahangaha cya za Repuburika za mbere bumvaga ko harimo ikibazo ugasanga baravuze ngo hariho ABAHUSI hariho abaki ibintu nk'ibyo ariko urumva twabayeho igihe cyose iyo myaka yose habaho Abahutu n'Abatutsi n'Abatwa n'abashakana bazi ko bashakana ariko ntacyo n'uko bari bazi ko bitavuga ubwoko by'amaraso byo biragaragara rwose, ntawigeze agira ubwoko bwa nyina kandi nyina amaha amaraso, agira isura ye bigize bite. Urumva rero ko ibyo kuvuga ngo n'ubwoko nabyo n'ugushakisha n'urugomo bashyiraho gusa rwo kugira gute. Urumva abakoroni icyo bazanye rero n'icyo kintu cy'urugomo cyo guhindura abanyarwanda bava inda imwe.
- Muzungu: bakavuga ngo n'amoko atagira icyo apfana ndetse noneho biza no biza no kubyarwa mu ngoma, baranangana kuko aribo bazanye no no no kudasangira ubutegetsi ;mbere barabusangiraga none babuharira bamwe, bizanabyanditse turaza kubivuga mu kanya y'uko babandi ba ba babuhaye baza kubizira ba kuko baza kubizira kuko bazaga bavuga ngo mwacuze abandi ii. N'ubutegetsi uko bwari busanzwe bumeze hariho nk'abaza ku kugira nk'ibyerekeye nk'uko ubutegetsi bwari bumeze kera nk'uko abantu basangiraga ibintu hariho nk'abantu bashoreza, hari nk'ikintu abantu banga kenshi kandi batavuga nk'ibyerekeye UBUHAKE. Ubuhake n'ikintu abantu biyamye nyuma eeh akazi n'ibintu byazanywe n'abazungu, ikiboko n'abazungu babizanye, uburoko n'abazungu babizanye kera nta buroko bwabagaho kera nta kiboko cyabagaho.
- Muzungu: Ikireke ikindi rero Ubuhake bwabagaho nabwo babwi babivangitiranya Ubuhake s'ikintu cyari kibi byari ibintu byu mbese ni nk'uko ubungubu umuntu ajya gusaba akazi, iyo ngiye gusaba akazi muri Leta eeh n'ubuhake ? ugize Imana ndetse abona Ubuhake, Ubuhake ntibyari, ntibyari uku nta muntu wigeze akubitirwa guhakwa nta muntu n'umwe wigeze aza ngo ngwino ujye kumpakwaho, umugaragu yagendaga abishatse. Kera rero mu kinyarwanda cya kera bitaraza muri urwo rw'ubungubu, Ubuhake bwari nk'urwego umuntu yururiraho kugira ngo ashyikire urwego rwo rw'abamuruta n'ukwisunga ukuruta. Ukuruta rero yagufashishaga iki ? amafaranga ya kera yari Inka, umu yakurushaga iki ?
- Muzungu: amafaranga ya kera yari Inka, umu yakurushaga iki ? yashoboraga no kuku no kuku kukugarukira no kukurwanaho kera hari hatarabaho ubutegetsi buvuganira ku bantu bose, shobuja cyangwa umuntu ukuruta akagukiza kandi akaba yanakurwanaho urenganye. Ubuhake rero cyari ikintu kiza icyo gihe ku buryo bw'icyo gihe nyine, ifaranga rwa kera ryari Inka, urabyumva nta ndetse abantu nta n'umuntu utahakagwa rwose n'Umwami yahakagwa na Karinga niko bavugaga, ndetse abakire nibo babaga bahatswe kuko babaga bafite ibihakiwe, rubanda rudatunze ntacyo rwahakwaga. Baravuga ngo hari intero bavuga ngo nibashaka kwiyenza bakavuga ngo ngo ngo ngo abantu bararenganye ngo rubanda rugufi, ng'Abahutu bakubiswe ngo ngo ng'Ubuhake udatunze inka ntiyigeze aaa udashaka Inka nta ntawe bigeze bakubita ngo jya guhakwa utazishaka yarazirekaga.
- Muzungu: ikindi rero umuntu uu ukize wese yagombaga kuba afite akeneye urwego azamukiraho umuntu wese aki aki Nzungize, Ngirumpatse umuntu mbese na RUDAHIGWA yajyaga yirahira RWABUTOGO uhh, buri wese afite umuhatse. Ni nk'uko tuvuga nyine umugaragu w'Imana, umugaragu wu ukuruta umuntu wese aba afite uwo yisombe,mbese nk'ukunguku uzarebe uwabuze akazi, umushomeri uko aba ameze iii. Icyo kintu rero cy'ubuhake ni n'uko gusa nyine aba abazungu babishyizemo urugomo babyita uburetwa, babigira itegeko bavenga n'ibya kazi nyine biravanga biba bibi rero. Mu by'ukuri rero Ubuhake n'Uburetwa n'Ikiboko s'ibintu bimwe rwose uhh, n'uwaza kubibaza wenda aze kubibaza niba ashaka ariko ibintu rero abazungu bazanye mu magambo make n'ibyo, cyane icyavuyemo n'iki ?
- Muzungu: n'uko gusumbanya abantu icyo ni kimwe n'ukwitirira y'uko hari abishe abandi ikindi cya ikindi n'ukuvuga ko hari n'amoko atagira aho ahuriye ikindi n'ukuvuga nu, icya mbere cy'ingenzi nyine n'ukutugira Abacakara babo, bakaza bakatwambura ubutegetsi bakatugira imbwa. Umwami bakavuga ngo genda bakamwirukana abasigaye bakaba mbese niba bazanye no kuza n'umuntu gukubita umuntu ba aribyo bita gukura impuzu, barazaga bakabarambika bakabakubita baku ba Impuzu n'ugukura ku myenda baga bagakubita bambaye ubusa. Agasuzuguro gateye umujinya sha yemwe Abagore nibo bata batinya ariko nabo barababwiraga ngo pfukama mugore, pfukama bagukubite inshi iii ibyo bintu n'ibintu. Abakoroni rero n'icyo kintu ba nibyo umuntu yabavugaho.
- Muzungu: ndaza kuvuga aa ukuntu baje ku icyo byabyaye nyine, iby'imvururu yo muri mirongo itanu n'icyenda mfite n'igitabo kibivuga kiri ahangaha niho tuza kugera. Ehh mu magambo makeya wenda muze kongeraho ibibazo ariko n'uku nabivuga.
- Martin: N'uko nari ngiye nari nifuje kubabaza ikibazo, hari abantu benshi bagendera ku mateka eh adasobanutse cyangwa se navuga atariho cyangwa se wenda bakajya bibeshya ibindi bintu bitewe no kudasobanukirwa. Umwami MUSINGA bamuciriye i Kamembe kubera impamvu, ntabwo yumvikanye n'abazungu bigeze aho nk'uko mwabitubwiye baza kumucira Moba muri Congo. Biragaragara ko hari ibyo batumvikanyeho neza n'abazungu.
- Martin: bishoboka ko hari igihe wenda bamubwiraga gukora ibingibi we ntabyumve akumva ko nta kintu byafasha abanyarwanda yari ayoboye. Ese mwadusobanurira mu buryo busobanutse neza mu by'ukuri ibintu Musinga yaba atandukaniyeho n'abazungu kuburyo byageze n'aho bamuca ?
- Muzungu: Uh ngira ngo ibintu birumvikanaho gatoya n'ubwo icya mbere ngira ngo k'ingenzi n'uko eh Musinga yari yaramenyereye kuba Umwami kuvuga rero ngo kuva uyu munsi nturi Umwami, kuvuga ngo uri umucakara s'ibintu byoroshye icyo nicyo cya mbere ntabwo rero yabyitwayemo neza kuko ntiyabyemeye. ntiyabyemeye birumvikana ntiwaba uri nyiri Igihugu ngo bakubwire ngo ntabwo uriwe ntaho ushingiye ngo wemere, ibyo byaramuvunye cyane ntiyabyumva. Ikindi cya kabiri rero Musinga bagirango anabatizwe yari umuntu wamenyereye idini yacu y'Imana bakavuga ngo n'Ibishenzi ngo ngw'arabandwa agira ate.
- Muzungu: ngo n'ajye mu Misa n'agire ate, ibyo nabyo ntiyari kumenya iyo idini atari idini ya ya kandi koko idini y'Imana ntacyo yari ibaye ba ba bayihinyuragaho n'ubungubu n'ubuswa uhh nanjye nd'umu Padiri mbabwira nanjye nd'umwe mu bantu barwanyije bimwe. Baraje baravuga ngo idini yacu ngo abanyarwanda basenga ibigirwamana ibyo n'ikintu nanditse n'igitabo cyitwa Le Dieux est du notre Pere kirwanya ibyo. Baraje bakuraho izina ry'Imana bavuga ngo ni MUNGU ibyo twara ntimwabirwanyije twaranabinesheje Mungu twaramuciye ntare dusubiza Imana tugaragaza y'uko abirabura twari dufite idini baravugaga ngo nta dini tugira no kugeza igihe twabyemeje no kwa Papa bemera n'uko abanyafurika bafite idini.
- Muzungu: Maze no kwandika icyo gitabo nyine Le Dieu est du notre pere aho nigishaga muri Université y'i Kinshasa nabajije abanyeshuli nigishaga nsanga abirabura bose bo mu mu muri afrika cyane cyane yo mu bice byo munsi ya Sahara bose bemera ko hari ikintu cyaremye Isi n'Ijuru bakagiha amazina menshi ariko twe tukakita Imana ibyo tukaba tubisangiye ; ntitwasengaga ibigirwamana. Ibyo rero Musinga byaramuvunishaga kugira ngo baze bamutuke ngo n'umusenzi ngo na aa Ibigirwamana agira koko bamuzizaga ukuri ntiyabyemeraga kandi umuntu ufite ubwenge nka Musinga ntiyari kubyemera ii nari ngiye kuvuga ngo bamujijije ukuri, bamujijije ukuri kuko ntiyari kubyemera, n'umuhungu we ndetse yapfuye guhendahenda kugira kuko yagize ati nintabigira nimbyemera barangira nka Data.
- Muzungu: Apfa kwemera icya mbere yakoze nyine n'ukwemera kubatizwa, yemera n'uko u Rwanda rugira arutura Yezu simvuga ngo ndabirwanya byo ariko Musinga yazize icyo kintu cy'ingenzi, kumukura ku butegetsi no kumutoza idini y'abazungu atazi cyane bakamwita ko ari umusenzi ngo ni abashenzi, ntiyari umushenzi yari afite Imana ye kandi koko niy'ukuri na Yezu siyaje ahubwo yaje kuvuga ngo sinaje kubikuraho ahubwo naje kubyemeza, nanditse igitabo nyuma nyine, je ne suis pas venu abolir mais accomplir, je ne suis pas venu abolir sinaje gukuraho iby'Imana yari yarashyize mu mutima n'abakurambere banyu ba bari bazi ahubwo naje kubyuzuza, ehhh.
- Muzungu: Urumva rero Musinga yazize ukuri yazize y'uko yari azi ubwenge kandi yari umugabo kandi yari akwije umuco wa gihanga w'ukuri uhh, abakoroni bari bazanye kutu baje bavuga ko turi ibicucu nta bwenge turi ingegera turi inyamaswa ibyo rero byaramuvunishaga kugira ngo abyemere urumva nicyo yazize cyane n'ikindi, njye niko ndeba rwose n'ibindi wenda by'impande by'uko bashakaga uboroheye, ubatizwa akiga iby'ikizungu undi yari ashaje wenda basanga atazabashobokera.
- Martin: Noneho iyo ugiye kwitegereza muri Afrika ntabwo u Rwanda n'u Burundi aribyo byakoronijwe byonyine n'ibindi Bihugu byagiye bikoronizwa. Noneho ariko mu Rwanda n'i Burundi cyane cyane usanga ariho hagiye haba ikibazo kuko nk'ubwo abazungu baraje basanga aa nko mu Rwanda tuvuge abanyarwanda uko bari babayeho bari bafite uburyo bategekana, bari bafite ukuntu babayeho noneho nkibaza ikibazo. N'iki cyatumye abazungu bashobora kubasha guteranya cyangwa guhimba amoko mu banyarwanda kugira ngo babone ukuntu babacamo ibice cyangwa bifashishe nk'uko wabivuze Abatutsi kugira ngo babategekere.
- Martin: noneho nkavuga nti kuki bahisemo Abatutsi kuko iyo ugiye kwitegereza usanga ikibazo uyu munsi dufite gituruka muri kiriya gihe cy'ubukoroni kuko abazungu bafite ibintu bahimbye kugira ngo bibafashe mu mugambi wabo ariko se kuki byabayeho muri bino bihugu byacu. Urugero natanga nk'u Rwanda no mu Burundi gusa n'uko aritwe twari dufite nk'imiyoborere myiza baje bakabona batazatwinjiramo gusa nko mu bindi bihugu.
- Muzungu: Ehh ibyo nari kukigusubiza mu kanya iiyu uba uretse kuko turaza kugera ku bintu byo muri mirongo itanu n'icyenda.
- Muzungu: nyine icyo twapfuye na n'ibyo byaje kubamo ariko icyo kibazo umuntu araza kugisubiza mu kanya. Mu by'ukuri ubigenzuye wenda ngisubirize aho iby'amoko babihimbye nk'uko ubivuze neza, mu by'ukuri n'ahandi barabihimbye ariko ikibazo cyaje gukara cyane cyane igihe cyo cyo gushaka ubwigenge. N'icyo gituma nagira iyo umuntu akivuga mu kanya niho byari gukunda kuko kuko naho mu by'ukuri hano bahimbye iby'amoko ariko ahandi bahimbye ibindi.
- Muzungu: ariko barabihimbye kuko byose barabihimbye kugirango bimane ubwigenge eh uze kukibaza mu kanya nda ahubwo mushobora kubaza ikindi kibazo ehh cy'abakoroni ee hariho nk'ikibazo bakunda kuvuga cyerekeye navuze ukuntu aba Padiri mushyira mu rwego rw'abakoroni ibintu nk'ibyo. Hari ikindi kibazo abantu bajya bavuga kerekeye ee Kiriziya Gatorika n'iki bayishyira muri ibyo bintu ehh.
- Martin: Ee ahongaho ahongaho twari turi mu gihe cy'ubukoroni ntitwari tumaze kugera k'ubutegetsi mu Rwanda bahawe bubasha ki, abene gihugu bafashwe bate ngirango ibyo ngibyo mwabitubwiye. Noneho iyo ugiye kwitegereza usanga na none muri kiriya gihe hari ibice bibiri ha hari ukuntu Kiliziya Gaturika aba Padiri nabo wabonaga bari muri biriya bintu bafatanyije na bariya Bazungu baje bari baje. Ngirango ahongaho naho mushobora kudusobanurira. Ese bariya bazungu hari aba missionnaire ba mbere baje, nibo bantu bifashishije kugirango muri ya gahunda aba Padiri bari bafite yo kubanza guhindura abantu n'idini yabo no kubabatiza n'iki.
- Martin: Ese icyo kintu cyo ariko noneho nyuma wareba ugasanga hagati hariya ntabwo sinzi niba navuga kiliziya Gaturika cyangwa niba navuga Abapadiri nabo ntabwo bitwaye neza kuko bagaragaje guhengama mu buryo bugaragara, iby'ari kwigisha abantu Imana bihinduka Politique ugasanga noneho ibintu ntabwo bigenze neza. Sinzi ikintu mwatubwira ahongaho ku kintu kerekeranye n'aba Padiri na Kiliziya.
- Muzungu: Eh kugira ngo tubyoroshye reka ibyo byose tubiganire tuvuge ibyo muri mirongo itanu n'icyenda bira birasa nk'aho bisubira muri ibyo byose kuko n'ubundi turavangavanga usange biza no kuruhanya eh niho tuza ku ibyo by'Abapadiri n'Abakoroni icyo dupfa cy'ukuri kuko nibyo bya Speek n'iki nk'ukuntu nabivuze mbere ku buhake ariko icyo n'iki n'ikintu bari bakeneye kugikoresha.
- Muzungu: bari bazi ko babeshya ariko bari bakeneye kugira ngo mu by'ukuri bangaga kuva hano, bangaga gutanga ubwigenge, ibyo n'ibintu byakaze bakajije cyane cyane bagira ngo bimane ubwigenge. Eh noneho ngirango uwavuga ikibazo cyerekeye ni hari byinshi bishamikiyemo. Ehehehe
- Emery: Icyo gihe cy'ubukoroni mutu mutubwiyeho incamake yacyo, icyo gihe cy'ubukoroni eh mwakitubwiyeho n'akabozo wenda muri budusubizeho kajyanye na Kiliziya Gaturika. Turakubita ku mvururu zo muri mirongo itanu n'icyenda imyivumbagatanyo abantu benshi ubungubu babyita kwishi : hari ababyita imvururu, hari ababyita Révolution sociale, hari n'ababyita ukundi. Ubwo rero muri bubitubwiremo mutubwiremo ababigizemo uruhare cyane, nonese byakozwe n'ande ? Ese byaganishaga hehe ? bari bari bande ?
- Muzungu: Yego n'ikibazo giko ngirango mubyo twavuze byose iki niwo muzi wa simvuga ngo niwo muzi wa byose ariko niyo niyo masanganiro y'ibibazo. Ikibazo cyaje gukara umunsi Afrika irambirwa ubucakara eeh n'aho ariko ihera nyine kubyari byayitangiriye nicyo cyatumye nagira ngo mbi mbibaze mbi mbanze mbitazire ariko mu by'ukuri amasangano y'ibibazo n'ubwigenge by'Afrika kwikura ubucakara, muri Afrika rero amateka murayazi n'abantu benshi barayasoma ubungubu n'ibintu byoroshye ku kuvugwa.
- Muzungu: Abazungu muri iyi Confe Conference de Berlin niyo yatanze Afrika ngw'ibe ubusitani bw'abazungu bikorere ibyo bashaka cyane cyane bari bakeneye ii ibyo bita Matiere Premiere ibintu ba byo kuko mu nganda kugira ngo bacure ibyuma n'ibindi byose bazakoresha, basanga Afrika rero ari ubutaka bwabo ariho hari n'ibintu byinshi ba ba bakwifashisha bagira inama rero bigira inama y'ukuntu bazaza kugabana Isi, Afrika ijyamo rero. Ubwo rero aba baje ino abakoroni bazana n'Abapadiri, bazana n'abandi bose babacukuzi bagira bate barakora amateka maremare murayazi y'ubukoroni.
- Muzungu: Bigera igihe rero Afrika isa nk'aho imaze gushira ubwoba igira iti birakabije, birakabije bari baragize bamwe rero ubwo hari ubukoroni busanzwe nkatwe ndetse twe baratworoheye ariko hari abo bajyanaga bakabajyana mu mahanga hakurya wumvise z'Amerika, Aziya iki abo bita Esclavage . Twebwe twagize n'Imana hari umugabo witwaga Rwabugiri bamwise Makare bwana Mukare aragomera ararwana abuza abara….. bigira bite, ariko biratinda nyine ba baraza.
- Muzungu: Igihe rero cyo cyo muri za mirongo hafi ya za mirongo itangatu kuva muri za miro hafi bijya kuganisha muri za mirongo itandatu, ibihugu bya mbere ngira ngo niza Ghana nizo zabanje kugira Independance. Abazungu bashatse ukuntu bakwimana Ubwigenge bashaka rero ukuntu bazibya Abirabura bari bakomye induru y'ubwigenge, abitabiraga ubwo Bwigenge rero batangira kwigirana no guhimba amashyaka ya po po Politique bayita Nationaliste abantu bashaka ubwigenge. Bon abenshi turabazi nyine barimo ba Nkurmah, barimo ba Kinyata hafi aha ni ba Jomo ki ni ba Njomo Kimata nyine hari umwami wa Ethiopia Haile Sellassie. tuvuge n'ino rero nyine tuvuge tuge tugushe hano kwa Rudahigwa iwacu tubigushe hafi na Rumumba hafi aho na Rwagasore hariya hepfo n'iki amazina yose murayazi.
- Muzungu: Kenshi rero abazungu kugira ngo bimane ubwigenge bashakaga abandi birabura bafasha bati mwebwe muri abana beza tuzabafasha eeh maze rero murwanye ziriya mbwa zishaka kudukosereza, bahimba rero amashyaka bayita Progressiste afasha abakoroni agira ati : ntidukeneye Ubwigenge mbese Afrika ko turya kukaba tugaburirwa Ubwigenge n'ubw'iki ? abazungu rero nibwo bahimbye mu bihugu byose muby'ukuri u umuntu yakeka ngo hano bahimbye urwitwa mu bihugu byose rero bashatse amashyaka abafasha kurwanya abashaka Ubwigenge mu bihugu byose. Bagashaka rero nyine aho bahera kugira ngo baba ba batandukanye habe abirabura ba bashaka ubwigenge n'ababo babarwanya kandi babafasha.
- Muzungu: Kugira ngo rero bikunde ni n'iko bagenda bashaka rero nyine icyo baheraho muri buri gihugu bakareba ikintu baheraho hakaba arubwo bahera kw'idini, idini akaba arirwo arirwo rugabaniro rero bati eeh tuvuge nko muri Sudani ngirango hakaba wenda Abarabu n'abirabura, muri Angola hakaba iiza politique baba parti politique aba Socialiste n'aba n'aba Nationaliste donc akaba ahera kw'idini akaba ariyo mpamvu ahera kugira ngo atanye abira abenegihugu, akaba ahera ku turere abi Abarabu n'Abirabura, akaba ahera ee mbese nka n'amoko nyine nk'iwacu rero hasanze kenshi bashaka rero ahantu babona ikintu gituma kugabanya guteranya amoko byoroha kandi bakagira noneho no n'igipande gishobora gutsinda abandi bashobora gukuramo majorité kuko usha iteka bagashaka n'abantu bakatamwo.
- Muzungu: imigabane ibiri kuko iyo ugize amoko nk'ibi, tuvuge nk'amadini ntiwashyira kw'idine hari amadini icumi kuko ntiwabona uko ugabanyamo kabi, iteka bashaka ukuntu habonekamo imitwe ibiri ntabarwana ari imitwe myinshi. Bashaka ikintu kikatamo aa abene gihugu mwo kabiri, babyita ii douel, douel. Hano rero basanze amoko aribyo byoroshye n'ubwo ari atatu muby'ukuri rimwe baryigije iruhande bati ntacyo rivuze Abatwa barabihorera, baho Abahutu n'Abatutsi umwe babaha ingabo ya so ngo murwane eeh n'ahandi bisho, hariho aho bashyizeho idini nko muri za Sudani ngirango bashatse abirabura n'iki. Iteka rero abira abazungu rero abakoroni bashakaga ikintu gituma aba abene gihugu baba imitwe ibiri irwana bagafata igipande kibafasha rero.
- Muzungu: Iyi niyo mpamvu yatumye nyine bareba bahimba Ubwoko kuko aribwo bworoshye kuko abahu abo bita Abahutu n'ukuvuga ni majorité kuko majorité n'aba n'abakene n'abari hagati mubyu ubigenzuye kuko ABAHUTU ABATUTSI ABATWA nyine na n'ibyerekeye categorie ya ya y'ubukire, abakene cyane bakitwa Abatwa, abo hagati bakaba ari bafite bafite abakene ariko biringaniye nibo benshi cyane ku butegetsi bwose bakitwa Abahutu, abakire cyane ariko ba bakeye nyine bakitwa Abatutsi. Niko babigize rero bashaka ibyo ubundi iyo tuvuge basanga nk'idini ariyo yoroshye gukatamo kabiri niyo bari gufata,iyo bafata nko muri aa ahandi bagasanga uturere aritwo tworoshye niko bari kubigenza ; nko muri a Sudan niko bakase abirabura n'aba n'abarabu.
- Muzungu: Ugenzuye s'ukuvuga ko bakunda abahutu n'ugu sibyo n'uko basanze gukata Abahutu n'Abatutsi byoroshye iyo babona ikindi bari kugikoresha nacyo ibigaragara n'uko atari ukuba mbere nibo bakase mbere baraje bashaka mbere bashakaga, bashakaga ababafasha gutegeka. Urumva ba nibo bazanye rero gukatamo kabiri abazi gutegeka n'abatazi gutegeka Abahutu bajya mu mbwa zitazi gutegeka ndetse babashyiraho n'ibicucu ntazi ubwenge ni babi n'ingurube byose n'iki n'ukurya gusa upfa gusukamo bakamira. Abatutsi ni beza n'imfura bazi ubwenge bazi gutegeka ibintu nk'ibyo, hanyuma igihe babasenzi rero bahaye bashyize kw'ibere niryo kosa harimo na Rudahigwa umwami wabo bagize n'umukristu yari yarifashe neza ntiyari yarakurije se eeh bavuze ubwiyungu Rudahigwa aba uwa mbere ahaguruka.
- 00 :34 :43 muzungu ati yeyeyeyeye agiye n'iburayi amaze kubona nibyaho ashirika ubwoba ati eheeee nzajya no muri L'O.N.U nsabe igihugu cyanjye kigenge, yibutse ubwenge bwo kwigenga ? bati wa mbwa we sha twagushyize imbere n'ibyo ? ati buretse rero tukwereke ii buretse uko noneho araza avuga ati mwebwe abana b'Abahutu mwarengana ye, icya mbere ni mwebwe muzi ubwenge, muranitonda, nimwe benegihugu erega nimwe benegihugu nimwebwe ba nyamwishi abandi ziriya mbwa zi si sin'abanyarwanda mu byukuri. Byabindi bya Speek noneho barabikeneye kaga theorie Speek yavuze agira ngo ariganirira ngo ni barebare barasa nin'inzobe ndetse ubanza, baraasa n'Abagara. Abazungu bati aaaaa ese ko aribyo ntubona se ?
- 00 :35 :31 ab'ukuri dore mwebwe ni mwe bene gihugu, benegihugu n'Abahutu aba aba Abatwa bara barabihoreza ntibanabavuga Abatwa bati nimubihorere bati noneho rero bibaye bite ? ubwo rero mushaka ubwigenge mwebwe Abatutsi icya mbere ni koko na bati tujye kuri Abahutu igihugu n'icyanyu mwebwe mwirukane abakoroni ariko muhere kuba mbere abakoroni ba mbere n'Abatutsi mubasubize iwabo, nibwo banahimbye bati inzira ngufi murayizi ni Nyabarongo mwo gasenya mwe, dore inzira iri hariya hafi Nyabarongo. Abatutsi basubire iwabo tuzaba tujyenda nyuma nibyo tubanze ariko tu tubasubize. Nguko uko rero ukuntu ibyo bintu byagize byaje kubyara ikibazo kibi cyane kirakara rero byose biza byirunda, hanyuma rero kugira ngo bikunde ntibyari byoroshye kugira ngo bikunde.
- 00 :36 :25 Bimwe bavuga rero ngo ngo ngo kamparamaka ngo nako ngo ngo kwivumbura dore umugabo murebe iki gitabo MISSION AU RWANDA cyanditswe n'umuzungu witwa Colonnel Guy LOGEST w'umu Flamma ndamuzi, ndamuzi yari ari hariya i Kigali. Yaraje muri cinquante neuf(59) aribwo bwa mbere avuye i Congo araza bamuha ubutegetsi aba residence speciale, ubutegetsi bwose arabwicaza bwari busanzwe ari ubw'abakoroni n'iki ari njyewe ninjywe uhawe u Rwanda kubutegeka butavuguruzwa. Nibwo aje rero bamubwiye bati maze rero ziriya mbwa z'Abatutsi ndetse sin'abanyarwanda n'iki, bakureho ushyireho Abahutu. 00 :37 :11 Araza rero abishyira itegeko Abatutsi bose arabanyaga tout simplement nta ntarundi rubanza puuuu mbwa mbesire abicaza bose, bose ku murongo ku murongo ntarundi rubanza. Ashyiraho Abahutu gusa bityo atangira gutwika. 00 :37 :29 Uyu muzungu yatwikiye njye ubabwira yatwitse iwacu i Buhoro, Abazungu nta mwirabura urimo nibo baje gutwika iwacu barasa. Ibyo bavuga ngo cinquante neuf………………TEXTE MANQUE….............NTAJWI……..makeya ibyo bababwira ngo imyuvumbagatanyo n'iki ibyo n'ukubeshya n'amagambo. Basanze badatanga ubutegetsi bati noneho dukureho ababusa aba…………….TEXTE MANQUE……………NTAJWI……..yeeee Parmehutu rero………..NTAJWI…….ku mbehe bati dore. muzungu Cinquante neuf rero n'ibintu by'imikino bashyizeho abantu bakora utwo bakora, ibyakozwe murabizi uko bishe abantu uko batwitse uko birukanye…………byose mu by'ukuri ni n'abakoroni babikoraga bakiraga abakoroni Kayibanda yashyizweho n'abakoroni n'ababitangiye sinirirwa mbabwira abatangiye amashyaka nina ndaza kuvuga n'ikintu cyerekeye aba Padiri kuko n'iby'amashyaka babyigishije nibyo n'aba Padiri nababwira n'amazina ndaya…… 00 :00 :02 Muzungu Yee tuvuge ibyo bise Muyaga yo muri mirongo itanu n'icyenda ubwo navuze icyayiteye impamvu y'ingenzi n'uko abazungu bangaga kubi gutanga ubwigenge kandi abari ku butegetsi icyo gihe babusaba Umwami n'abo bari barashyizeho bitwaga ngo ni Abatutsi. Aho kugira ngo bibe naba abari barabuhawe babategetsi byiyitirirwa Abatutsi bose kandi basanga ntakundi babwimana badateranyije abanyarwanda kandi basanga no kubateranya ari gukoresha ubwoko byo bise ubwoko nyine ABAHUTU ABATUTSI n'ABATWA babyise ubwoko butandukanye kandi buzirana. Ndetse bavuga y'uko ibyago byose byabayeho mu Rwanda cyane cyane icyo gihe cyabo byatewe n'Abatutsi byabu kakazi za nkoni cya gifungo. Byabindi byose mbese byabayeho bitewe n'abakoroni babyitirira Abatutsi. 00 :01 :23 muzungu Kandi ubundi nyine twabonye y'uko niyo byaba ba tuvuge niyo bavuga ko Abatutsi bari bafite ubutegetsi bubi bari baba barabukuyeho. Ikigaragaza n'uko bakuyeho Umwami, umwami bashyizeho RUDAHIGWA nibo bamwishyiriyeho ntibamushyizeho bakurikije ubutegetsi bwa kinyarwanda. Ntiyari umwami utegeka yari umukozi nk'abandi yategekwaga n'ab'Administrateur n'izina ry'ubwami bamwise MWAMI, hakabaho UMWAMI na MWAMI ndetse n'aba na nkatwe twasengaga mu Kiliziya twavugaga twasengaga dusabire umwami wacu Leoporidi. 00 :01 :59 muzungu Ntitwavuga ngo dusabire Umwami wacu Rudahigwa, twaravugaga dusabire Umwami wacu Leoporidi ii urumva rero igihe rero ubutegetsi buhindukiye kubera y'uko nyine abategetsi bashakaga ubwigenge babuhaye utabusabaga PARMEHUTU biva rero kuby'amatora, bahimba amatora amashyaka y'amatora baratora, baratora bahi bakubaka rero Répuburika Kayibanda yaka Répubulika. Leta ya mbere Gouvernement ya mbere yashyizeho yari ya nkuko nabivugaga mu kanya yari igizwe n'abahu n'abatutsi na na n'Abazungu n'aba Parmehutu. Ngira ngo ndebye mu by'ingenzi cyane by'icyo gihe ni nk'ibyo icyari gisigaye n'uko ibizakurikira ni Leta zikurikiye zagiye zifite uwo murage w'uko igihugu kibaye icy'abantu bamwe bita aba Parmehutu eeh n'ababakurikiza bose. 00 :03 :16 muzungu Bibyaye y'uko Abatutsi babaye babi babaye abakoroni baciwe. Aba abashoboye guhunga bagahunga murabizi ni niho impunzi zatangiriye, gutwika niho byatangiriye, kwica niho byatangiriye, mbese kuvuga ko Umututsi atari igihugu atarike rwose ari Kavantara ar'umunyamahanga. Ehh birakurikirana mu mashuli, birakurikirana mu mirimo mbese hose Umututsi usanga atakiri atakiri iwe. Ubwo rero umuntu akaba yavuga ko nta naho byagejeje wenda umuntu yaza na subira na kurikizaho izi Leta za mbere za Répubulika niba mushaka ko dukomeza. 00 :04 :06 emery ………..kuri ayo mateka mutubwiye, kuri ayo mateka mutubwiye yo muri za mirongo itanu n'icyenda, umu hari undi mugabo ujya ukunda kuvugwamo cyane wabaye ngo ashobora kuba yaragizemo uruhare aah umugabo witwa Pelode. 00 :04 :31 muzungu Pelodé yari umusenyeri wanjye nabaye Padiri kwa niwe wampaye ubumuseseridoti Padili Pelodé yari yabaye na Padiri mukuru wanjye Munyakibanda, ndamuzi rero nicyo bishaka kuvuga. Ehh ndetse nekuvuga Pelodé wenyine reka mvuge nagure ikibazo mvuge ukuntu bavuga Kiliziya Gatorika. Uruhare rwa Kiliziya Gatorika muri ibyo bintu byose by'ibikubara byabaye cyane cyane by'amacakubiri, by'inzangano zabaye mu Banyarwanda bise Amoko, ngira ngo nibyo byiza kuko kuvuga si Pélodé wenyine ni kwaba ari gukabya ukavuga ngo ni Pélodé wenyine. Ngira ngo navuze mu kanya ukuntu igitekerezo cy'uko hari amoko atatu atandukanye cyane byanditswe mu bitabo byanditswe n'Abapadiri ba mbere. Nabiberetse kimwe n'icya Pages nakivuze ikindi n'icya Arnold. 00 :05 :39 muzungu ikindi n'icy'arasha n'icya ………de l'axge. Ikindi navuze ni musenyeri Classe uruhare yagize cyane cyane mu mu kuvuga kogeza ko Abatutsi bazi ubutegetsi no kuba yari yegereye ibyo musenye Umwami Rudahigwa. Ndetse niwe watumye amuta niwe wamutandukanyije na n'Umwamikazi KANKAZI. RUDAHIGWA aguma i Nyanza ariko kugirango Umwamikazi atazamugumisha mu bintu by'imitegekere by'iki by'umugabo we, bamuza bamwubakira Ishyogwe hafi ya Musenyeri Classe ngo amuragire amubuze kujya kwanduza umuhungu we, ibyo bitekerezo bishaje ehh. Musenyeri Classe rero bakavuga kera bavugaga ndetse ko ari inshuti y'Abatutsi. Bigasa nkaho ari nkaho ehh aho bihindukiye rero abenshi bakavuga ngo Pélodé yabaye umwami yabaye mbese Musenyeri w'Abahutu niko bavuga cyane cyane. 00 :06 :45 muzungu Bagahera cyane cyane kw'ibaruwa yigeze kwandika yo ku y'igisibo yavugaga ngo ……………….ngo ibiganiro byose, urukundo ehh bakavuga n'ibindi byinshi ariko noneho iyo umuntu ajya kuvuga uruhare rw'umuntu agomba kuvuga ibintu byumvikana kandi by'ukuri iii ibintu nk'ibyo. Njye icyo navuga muby'ukuri Pélodé ehh bamushyize muri urwo ruhande y'uko yagiye mugipa asa nkaho mbese yagiye mu gipande kidahuje n'icya Musenyeri Classe. Habayeho Musenyeri w'Abatutsi habaho Musenyeri w'Abahutu niko bavuga ariko bakoze uko babyumvaga niko navuga na buri gihe. Ngira ngo igihe cya Musenyeri Pélodé niko numvise bavuga ngo baramubwiye Abakoroni bati wowe wa mugabo we dore hagiye kuba ubwigenge kandi Abatutsi twabaciye, urabibona byarangiye hitamo ufashe abatutsi nako ufashe Abahutu kandi u u ufashe hasi Abatutsi, 00 :07 :48 muzungu fasha hasi Abatutsi ufashe Abahutu wime ingoma ya Gihutu utegeke u Rwanda bikunde bi bigutunganire. Bamwe bakavu ngo ya yahisemo ibigezweho wa mugani w'ikinyarwanda cyateye, icy'ingoma yimana. Ubwo rero hagati y'uko yabyemeye n'ibyo yakoze n'ibyo yakoze kumucira urubanza s'indi Imana. Cyakora icyo mbona cy'ukuri rero navuga ntavugiye Pélodé wenyine, n'uko byabaye koko hari abapadiri benshi bakoze bafatanyije n'abakoroni bibwira bati nidutanga ubwi nihabaho ubwigenge bazirukana abakoroni ndetse bazirukana n'abapadiri ba missionnaire, urebye icyo gitekerezo barakigize buretse ko n'icyo gihe baranabivuze na henshi biranditse. 00 :08 :56 muzungu Bi bigera igihe rero aba aba RUNAR abo bitaga aba RUNAR ndetse n'ab'Abatutsi umuntu abishyize nkaho umuntu yabishyira hamwe bitwaga ko ehh banga kiliziya, banga abazungu, banga abakoroni, banga kiliziya n'aba Communiste, habaye igihe ibyo bivugwa ehh abapadiri babigizemo uruhare bamwe baravuzwe ariko urumva bose si Pélodé cyangwa se sinavuga ngo niwe wabohereje. Ariko hari abantu koko eh babigi babigizemo uruhare ngirango. Iyo bavuga ariko Kiliziya Gatorika muri rusange ngirango umuntu ya yakwibuka, yabyibuka ku buryo bubiri nibyo byiza. Iyo tuvuga Kiliziya Gatorika mwese murabizi ; Kiliziya Gatorika n'umulyango w'ababatijwe bemera Yezu Christu kandi bakurikiza Ivanjiri, bagategekwa na Papa wasimbuye Petero n'izindi n'abandi Bapisikopi basimbuye intumwa cumi n'ebyiri(12) za Yezu. 00 :10 :05 muzungu Kiliziya Gatorika n'ababatijwe bose, iyo bavuze rero cyane cyane turaza kubiganisha turaza kubisubiramo wenda mu kanya gatoya ariko byahereye ahongaho kuko Genocide yaturutse aho hose kwanganisha abantu ba Genocide ntiyavutse 94 yatangiye icyo gihe, yatangiye muri mirongo urwenda mirongo itanu n'icyenda (59) muby'ukuri bagenda babyitoza bino ku mwisho. Aho hose rero eh bagiye ba ba batanduka bavuga ibyo bintu hariho abantu ba Kiliziya koko ba bayikosereje. Noneho mvuge Kiliziya muri rusange ki reka mbagushyiriremo abantu tuzi nyine, tuvuge nk'aba tuvuge Abategetsi, umu uwitwa umukristu wese wabatijwe ujya mu Misa, uwo namwita ko ari umuntu wa Kiliziya ; muri abo bantu bakosheje uko bigaragara. Mub'ikubitiro hera kuri KAYIBANDA twe kuvunika. 00 :11 :03 muzungu Kayibanda uretse no kuba umukristu yari n'Umufratiri ye, yagiye yi yaragiye no ku yageze hafi yo kuba Padiri. Ubwo rero nabo wabashyira mu mu bantu bana ba Kiliziya bakosheje. Kayi, HABYARIMANA nawe yabaye Umuseminari ndetse yari afite na afite bashiki be ba babenebikira, Ise, Ise yari ari umu Catessiste yavuye, yavuye mu Buganda i Bufumbira azana n'abapadiri b'I Rwaza baza no gushimira Paroise ya Rambura hanyuma aza mw'Iseminari. Rero tuvuze ushyizemo Kiliziya ko ye zu yagize ibintu bibi biri nawe arimo kuri urwo ruhande. Ndashaka kuvuga y'uko hari abana ba Kiliziya rero babi koko bakoze ibintu by'amacakubiri ndetse bageza no muri Genocide barabiteguye. Eh urumva rero mu gipande cya cy'abaraique barimo n'abapadiri rero barimo. 00 :12 :00 muzungu tuvuge nkubwiye nk'urugero nkubu wenda ntanuwabitandukanya rwose n'ibi bya Genocide ibi byari byaratangiye Genocide yari yaratangiye. Ubungubu muzi ko hariho abapadiri nyine ba baciriwe n'urubanza by'ukuri ARUSHA mwarabumvise bahamye n'icyaha cy'uko babigize. Ndagirango mvuge amazina kuko sinavuga amazina y'abantu batagize ruhamya kuko byaba ari ugukosa. Urumva na Pélodé nanze kwerura rwose n'abapadiri ndabazi, ndabazi rwose nanjye ubwanjye nzi rwose ariko ntawe navuga nta nta kintu cya garagaye ndavuga nk'ubu nyine nka ARUSHA yemeje ko yaje akasenya Kiliziya ye ari Padiri mukuru akazana……………….akagira ate. Mwumvise hariho ababikira bafungiye mu Bubirigi iii, hari abandi bafunzwe, hari Abapadiri bafunzwe sinamuhamya ariko hari abo nzi nanjye ubwanjye hari naba uwari ugiye kunyicasha, kunyicisha njyewe ubwanjye. 00 :12 :55 muzungu Ariko sinavuga ngo muvuge kuko ntawaciye urubanza mwavuga muti urabeshya uhh. Kuvuga rero y'uko ikindi rero tuvuge nko mu mu masengero mu kiliziya, uruhare rwa kiliziya mbabwira ru rugaragara ru ru runambabaza njya nabivuga rwose, nshi mumbwire n'uwabivuga akabisubiramo kandi nigeze kubivuga narabasobanuriye no muri kuri Radio. Tuvuge ibyabaye mu Rwanda ahangaha tuvuge nk'igihe amategeko ya PARMEHUTU yavugaga kubyo bumvikana ko yanganisha abantu. Tuvuge nk'igihe Radio yavugaga igahamya y'uko hari umwanzi ufite izina. Tuvuge nk'uko hari umusenyeri Faucasse, mwaramwumvise NIKWIGIZE yavuze ngo mutu Umututsi ni ni mubi muri kamere kandi azi ko kamere yaremye n'Imana, akaba nta muntu wigeze amuvuguruza muri abo basenyeri bose ngo agire ati wo dusangiye Imana ntidusangiye ijambo ati ibyo birakabije. 00 :13 :59 muzungu Eh kumva ko bashyizeho hariho nk'abanye hariho nk'impunzi zabayeho imyaka nanjye nabayeho imya impunzi imyaka makumyabiri n'irindwi. Bakandika Abasenyeri mu mategeko baka hari ibitabo bajya bandika bakavuga y'uko koko bemeza ko mu Rwanda nta nta mwanya usigaye eh abagiye bakwiye kubashakira imyanya hanze kandi urazi y'uko umuntu wese aba afite uburenganzira mu Gihugu cye ahubwo iyo i Gihugu kibuze aho gituza abantu kibashakira uko kibigenza. Nko kumva mbese nka Radio RTLM yavugaga abantu bayumva. 00 :14 :37 muzungu ku mannya umupadiri agasoma missa baraye bayumvise mubyo yigishije ntagire ati biriya bintu nta nibishobotse nimuze duhaguruke tugende tujye kugira ee imyigaragambyo tubibwire Leta tuyibwire ko ibyo bintu ataribyo. Kubera ko tu twemera Imana ibyo turabibujije cyangwa se habe haragize ikintu abasenyeri bakeya ngo bandike bati biriya Kangura yanditse tu mubi tura mubivuguruze, twandikire se ha president bati iriya Radio iriya mvugo yayo n'amacacubiri mukwiriye kuyizibya. Ibyo bintu ntibyigeze bibaho, ntibyigeze bibaho. Nkanjye rero nkavuga nti icyo ni ni ni n'ikintu kibi cyane kandi kirabahama. Bande ? abantu ba Kiliziya, abantu Kiliziya, abantu ba Kiliziya. Ariko urumva ntabwo navuze ngo Kiliziya Gatorika gusa navuze abantu ba kiliziya mvuga ; abayivugira baba bakwiye kuba barageze igihe bavuga bati ibi sibyo. 00 :15 :41 muzungu Iyo ubigenzuye rero n'ukwandika udupapurooo tuta ariko nta kintu cyumvikana gihamya kigira kiti twebwe aa Kiliziya Gatorika cyangwa se tuvuge mbese n'abakirisitu ngo tuvuge ngo ni Missionni iyi n'iyi cyangwa se n'abapadiri bakoze inama, cyangwa se n'abakristu bakoze inama bageze uru uru mubya haru bwo bajya ba nka nka nka nk'ingendo zo kwamagana ikintu ngo wumve ko abapadiri n'abakristu n'abantu bagize bandi bagize mani manifeste, bagize ikintu cyo kujya kwamagana ahagaragara ibintu baraye bumvise muri Radio, ntibyigeze bibaho. Ni bene nk'icyo kintu nicyo. Naho nganisha rero y'uko Kiliziya Gaturika wenda muri rusange na no kubategetsi bayo. Aho hantu habuze ikintu cy'ubutwari, cyo kwerura. Yezu ya ya ya yajyaga yaya yasangaga baba banduza Hekaru agafata, agafata imigozi agakubita abantu ati insengero ry'Imana ; ahubwo biciye abantu mu masengero eh turaceceka turiruka gusa. Uh turiruka gusa. 00 :16 :45 muzungu Simvuga ngo nt'abantu ba Kiliziya babaya abatagatifu, simvuga ngo nt'abantu ba Kilizi; mbese bariho no mu basenyeri bariho, bariho babizize no mu byo nandika birimo. Hari abavuze neza nka musenyeri BIGIRUMWAMI turamuzi n'abandi benshi ariko muri rusange nicyo nagaya; tuvuge nko muri kiliziya gaturika ikindi na hari abakosheje by'ukuri ariko bo n'abantu, n'abantu. Aho rero hari ikintu nyine urebye tuba twarebye mpora mbivuga twananiwe. Twebwe ndishyiramo kuko nanjye ndi umuntu wa Gaturika kandi ndi Umusaseridoti. 00 :17 :24 muzungu Uh twananiwe; tuba twaragize nka Petero Mutagatifi tuti tukarira tuti twananiwe umwanya wacu uh. Nigeze kuvuga muri Radio hambere batubaza, ndavuga nti umva rero umuntu agushinze ubushyo ndavuga kiliziya gaturika, wishi agushinze ubushyo ikirura kikaza kikaburya, ikirura ni ni n'iki cyabaye nyine. Abo bose bishe abantu tureba tugira dute. Iyo unaniwe kukirwanya wenda ngo kinakwice wa wundi wagusize inka iyo ukibonye ukirukira nta nta zindi yongera kukushinga. Nibura avuga ko uri ikigwari twekuvuga ko, twekuvuga ibindi bikabije. Aho niho navuga ko yenda uruhare rwa kiliziya rwabaye kandi hari ikintu cyagayitse mu by'ukuri biragaragara. Sinzi niba hari iki si ndakeka ko nta kintu nakongera kirenze ibyo. 00 :18 :24 emery Eh amateka y'u Rwanda nta ni nk'umugezi usuma huhuhu. Icyo gihe nyine nyuma y'izo mvururu za mirongo itanu n'icyenda twavuze, byaraje bigera byatanze ibintu byinshi cyane; byatanze; haje ku mu bintu byatanze havuyemo na za Repuburika, havuyemo za Repubulika. Tuzi Repubulika ya mbere tuzi na Repubulika ya kabiri. Izo Repubulika zo zombi za zikaba zarabayeho kuva muri icyo gihe cya miro za mirongo kuva muri mirongo itandatu na rimwe tugeze nibura muri mirongo cyenda na kane. Muri Repubulika ya mbere niya kabiri. Twagira ngo nabyo mubitubwire mu buryo nk'abantu noneho mwa amateka mutayasomye, mwayirebeye n'amaso. 00 :19 :05 muzungu Njye ndavuga mu magambo make kuko twese tubizi ubungubu. Eh ndavuga ko ubigenzuye Repubulika ya mbere n'iya kabiri byasaga naho bikomeza umujya umwe ya porogaramu y'abakoroni mu by'ukuri. Eh iya mbere icyo tuvuge kuri Kayibanda yaa yashyizeho ibyo by'amacakubiri yo gutandukanya abanyarwanda irabihamya bibyara impunzi nabivuze, bibyara irondakoko mu mashuri no mu mirimo ehh ndetse bikaza igi ho gatoya muri mirongo irindwi na kabiri, igihe nyine Habyarimana yashyakaga guha guhirika Kayibanda a a ahimba ko ari abanyarwa ari Abatutsi bongeye kubyiva kuzana imvururu. Ariko mu by'ukuri niwe wari wabihimbye kugira ngo abone uko amuhirika. Habyari Habyarimana aho aziye icyo yongeyeho n'uko ibyari irondakoko ngirango yongeyeho irondakarere ehh. Ehh ikindi rero, ikindi rero yongeyeho navuga n'uko eh yatangiye imyitozo y'ibiza y'ibyabaye Génocide. Ndavuga mu magambo make rwose nihuta. Ehh atangira ku ibyo nita imyitozo ya Génocide ni byabintu byikora. 00 :20 :28 muzungu byagendaga bica abantu hirya no hino bihurirana n'ukuntu ndaza kubivuga no mu kanya nyine; iby'inyenzi zaraje n'iki. Batangira kwica abantu hirya no hino ubona ko harimo kwimenyereza kugira ngo barebe niba ba byakunda niba hari uwabitinyuka, niba ntacyo byatwara, niba byafata. Uko navuga mu magambo make rero, Repubulika za mbere zombi zakurikije gahunda y'abakoroni ziranazuzuza zigenda ziganisha muri Génocide. Bivuga kuvangura k'umunya, Umututsi atari umunyarwanda kandi ko akwiye gupfa. Kandi rero babishyiraho rero uburyo bamuvuga uko ameze, ko ari mubi, ku buryo bwose bamushyiraho ukuntu ari umuntu mubi cyane barabyigisha bijya mu nyigisho zose tuzi ariko zikaza zikaza zikaza zikaza zumvisha ko adakwiye kubaho. Mbese navuga ko ari aho byageze mu magambo mvuze mu magambo make cyane. 00 :21 :27 martin Eh aho kuri za Repubulika mpafite ikibazo. Iyo urebye Repubulika ya mbere n'iya Kayibanda. Kayibana yahawe ubutegetsi urebye n'ababirigi b'abakoroni. Kayibanda ntabwo yamazeho igihe Habyarimana aramuhirika. Noneho njye ikintu ahangaha nshaka gusa nk'umuntu wahoze ariko ndebye n'ibi n'ubuzima muri Génocide icyenda na kane, hari ukuntu Kayibanda yahawe ubutegetsi n'ababirigi akayoborana n'ababirigi ariko Habyarimana aje ageze ku butegetsi, aho abuhirikiye we wabayeho umuntu ubanye n'abafaransa. N'ibintu bibiri; ababirigi nibo basa n'abantu ba crée ikintu cyo cy'urwangano mu banyarwanda hazamo amacacubiri abantu batangira kuryana. 00 :22 :13 martin Noneho nyuma ya Repubulika ya Kayibanda hari ukuntu byanacecetse ubona ko rwose Ububiligi busa nkaho nta kintu bwakoze mu Rwanda ahubwo noneho Habyarimana azana ubutegetsi nabwo burimo ibintu by'amayobera n'ubugome bwinshi ariko abanye n'Abafaransa ari nabo baje kugira uruhare mu mu myiteguro ya Génocide muri mirongo cyenda na kane(94). Kuburyo n'uyu munsi ubona ikintu cy'ubufaransa aricyo cyahawe ubugome bwabo cyangwa se no gufatanya n'abantu gutegura Génocide nibyo byahawe intebe cyane kurusha Ababiligi kandi aribo bazanye ikintu navuga ko aribo bazanye biriya bintu. Ibyo nta kintu wabitubwiraho. 00 :22 :49 muzungu Eh icyo n'iki n'ikibazo cyiza rwose kuko najyaga mbitekereza cyane. Koko Ababiligi bamaze gutsindwa kubu ku bukoroni nyine babwambuwe, abazungu bagiye b'abategetsi. Abafaransa barabi bashaka kubiganzura. Mbese bashaka ku kutabutanga bwose. 00 :23 :13 muzungu Naho abafaransa bafite amayeri y'uko na ibihugu byose bagiye ba bakoroniza, bayitanga batayitanze. Barayitanga ariko rero bashyiraho ikintu gisa nk'ikityo cyabo, gisa nk'ikiganza cyabo batajya gihora; bagasanga nyine akomo. Urabona ibihugu byose byakoronijwe n'abafaransa, barayitanga kandi bakayitanga batayitanze. Bagashaka ikintu Ababiligi bari bashushe nkaho batsinzwe niko mbyumva. Ariko abafaransa bafatanya na Habyarimana ndetse n'abandi mu by'ukuri abafaransa uko bimeze n'abanyabwenge batanga, Ababiligi batanze independence basa nkaho bayitanze birangiye baragendakizatuma bahora bahari, bazayikoresha abategetsi b'abirabura cyangwa se bo muri Asia kuko naho hari abategetsi ariko bahari. Hano rero mu Rwanda no mu Burundi no muri Congo ndetse. Ababiligi kuko ari agahugu gatoye bayitanze bayitanze ariko abafaransa bati a non non hoya ntabwo ushobora ku kugira ngo bagende birangire kandi Congo irimo ibi irimo amafunguro. 00:24:10 muzungu Baraza barabasimbura rero, abafaransa rero bashaka ukuntu basimbura Ababiligi ahari ururimi rw'igifaransa kugira ngo babomeke ku bindi bihugu by'abafaransa nyine. Noneho rero noneho dusubire nyine mu duse nk'aho dusanze n'abakoroni na n'ibihugu byo bya koronijwe n'abafaransa bya kera. Urumva nu ni nk'akantu kuko basimbuye Ababiligi ariko kugira ngo bekutureka ngo tugende. Ni nk'aho mbese basimbuye kandi ntibabyumvikanyeho uuhh pardon!! Ntibabyumvikanyeho n'ubungubu ndetse baracyahigitse. Iteka n'iyo tutumvikana n'abafaransa burya ababiligi ntibabyanze cyane, bituma bagaruka bati mwadutwaye imbehe. Ngirango niko njye mbyumva sinabitekereje cyane. Ababiligi baragiye ariko Abafaransa banga ku nk'uko batigeze bagira iyo bajya rwose ariko bagira bati noneho ubwo ababiligi bagiye reka na kariya kantu tugasubize mu mufuka wacu. w'aba Francophone mbese. Babwira Habyarimana bati uu icya mbere wowe uri umwana muto, n'igifaransa wa mugabo we. 00:25:14 Baramwiyegereza baramuryoshyaryoshya baraza baramuha bati ngwino. Ikindi rero humura ni n'ubwenge bugiye kuza rero bagira bati ikindi rero n'ukurwanya Abatutsi nibo bari kwanga gutanga Independence nta kindi, byari byoroshye. Habyarimana nawe ya ya ntacyo yabarwanyagaho kuko yagiraga ati muri abantu beza, tuvuga igifaransa. Ngirango n'uko abafaransa basimbuye ababiligi kugira kandi bakadutwara muri abo ba francophone Habyarimana akabyishimira bakamuha amata ngira ngo niko mbyumva. Uhh 00:25:52 Emery sinzi Hari ikindi kintu bakunda abantu bakunda kuvuga kuri Kayibanda cyane kuba yarafatanyije n'abazungu ko we atari umunyarwanda akaba kwica aba abanyarwanda ntacyo byari bimubwiye. Noneho yitwaza icyo kintu cyo guteranya Abahutu n'Abatutsi afatanyije n'abazungu. Kayibanda koko ntabwo yari umunyarwanda? 00:26:18 muzungu Bon byose ni bibiri kuvuga ko cy'uko atari umunyandarwa ndabisubiza ariko kuvuga ko yari yahimbye ko ngira ngo maze kuvuga, tumaze kumva aho byaturutse by'uko atari abanyarwanda atari iki, siwe wabibyaye. Siwe wabibyaye Kayibanda yasanze babivuga nawe arabyemera ko abanyarwa Abatutsi atari abantu. Kayibanda n'uwa nu ngirango niba ntibeshya Ise yitwaga Nkangura wavuye I Bukavu azana ndetse na mwene se wabo; mbese hari abagabo babiri uwitwa Nkangura na na mwene nyina se wa Rwagasana. Baje ino kuri Musinga bahakwa ino ndetse Nkangura se wa Kayibanda ahakwa ku mugabo witwaga Birasabyakanyemera, Chef Birasa yari akiri umusore. Ara muhakwa ndetse amuhakwaho, ajya ku muhakwaho ari mw'ishuli ry'Inyanza. Birasa amaze kugabana hano ku Kamonyi azana na Kayi azana na Nkangura hariya. Ngirango Kayibanda nibwo noneho yavutse. 00:27:26 muzungu Hanyuma rero igihe Birasa agiye gutwara mu Bunyambiriri nibwo nyine uwo se wa Kayibanda yagiye nawe kuri Ndiza ajyana na Kayibanda nibwo nyine bijyanye n'uko Kayibanda yagiye mw'iseminari. Ariko rero iby'ihame mvuze n'uko Ise wa Kayibanda ubwe yavuye mu i i yavaga hariya I Mushi, I Mushi. Eh kuvuga rero ngo yarwanyije yanga Abatutsi ko atari umunyarwanda, ya yavugaga ko ahubwo ataru ataru atar'Umututsi ahari, ko atari Umunyarwa, 00:28:08 Emery sinzi Ntiyari Umututsi ntiyari n'Umuhutu kuko atari Umunyarwanda. Kubateranya rero akabaryamishya afatanyije n'abazungu, we numva ntacyo byaba bimutwaye. 00:28:17 muzungu Ntacyo byari bimutwaye ariko urumva nti ntiyari kuvuga ko ntibyari byoroshye kugira ngo avuge ngo nd'umunyamahanga nje guteranya wenda we niwe warikugira ati nawe nturi umunyarwanda ibyo byo, yagombaga kubihisha ngirango. Wenda nti ntiyarabyanze nti yara ariko sinzi niba kuba yaravuye I Bukavu aribyo byari bimuhimbaje. 00:28:37 Emery sinzi Eh siho mvuga. Ndavuga ko we yumvaga ko icya mbere ntiyari Umuhutu ntiyari n'Umututsi. Guteranya abanyarwanda afatanyije n'abazungu, kuri we yumvaga abanyarwanda bamaranye ntacyo bimutwaye. Byaba… 00:28:53 muzungu Oya si wewe ushatse wabivuga ariko ngirango sicyo cy'ingenzi muby'ukuri, sicyo cy'ingenzi, sicyo cy'ingenzi. Ngirango abatutsi, hinga nkubwire impamvu cyane cyane Abatutsi icyo yabangiye. Ise yaraje ahakwa kwa Birasa, wenda bamufashe nabi, birashoboka ko afite ikintu cyo kuvuga ko Abatutsi bamusuzuguye. Vuga uwo Mututsi wenda wamutwaye cyangwa se wamuhatse simbizi. Ikindi rero hari ikintu mu by'ukuri Kayibanda yatumye yanga Abatutsi n'uko mutabizi yarwaye ikintu, ndabizi yagize amateka mabi mw'ishuli yarwaraga isundwe urumva. Kayiba ndabizi byo Kayibanda yarwaraga isundwe. Ibyo kwanga Abatutsi byo bifite ikintu biturukaho. Yarwaraga isundwe, hanyuma rero isundwe ku mw'ishuli ariko ibyo sinzi si byo si ntibyari bikwiriye kuvugwa ahangaha. Yarwaraga isundwe hanyuma baba bityo ntabwo ari byiza cyane. 00:29:41 muzungu Icyo nzi n'uko mw'ishuli padiri, ba musenyeri Pélodé ndi Padiri ii ndamuzi nsa nkaho namutegetse nanjye kera. Ikintu cyo gusuzugura yaracyangaga rero. Kuvuga rero ng'Abatutsi barasuzugura n'ikintu igihe cy'ubukoroni cyari cyarakwiye, baragikwije ngo Abatutsi barasuzura, icyo kintu yaracyangaga rero. Kuvuga rero ngo yarabateranyije ngo ni ni bene rubanda, awa n'ubundi sibene mama baragashira. Erega nago na Habyarimana ubishatse wabivuga ibyo kibazo barakivuga. Erega nawe n'umunyamahanga nimba utabizi, nawe n'Umufumbira. Ese wari uziko a aba ijambo Ubufumbira, a uziko abakozi bo mu gikoni b'abatetsi babita abafumbira. Byatuuruutseee(araseka) kuri Se wa Habyarimana. Yavuye I Bufumbira aza ari umukozi wo mu gikoni cy'abapadiri eh bi b'irambura ba babita Abafumbira batyo ni ba bakozi bitwa abafuuumbiiira(araseka) bib'ufumbira. Wa ushatse wavuga nawe ngo ngo yateranyije abanyarwanda kuko atari umunyarwanda ariko ibyo n'ugukabya, n'ugukabya. Yarabateranyije mu by'ukuri kugirango abone ubutegetsi, nta ntawabivuga ngo yabigize kuko ntiyanze ko abanyarwanda bicana. Njye sinamenya ko iyo ariyo mpamvu y'ukuri. Njye simbyemeza rwose. Eh 00:31:04 martin Ngirango mwakomeza mutubwira ku bitero by'impunzi abazize kwitwa ibyitso byazo ese byo baje kugenda bite? Ngirango nabyo byaba biri mubyukuri jenocide nyirizina ya mirongo icyenda na kane …. 00:31:29 muzungu Yeeeeeeeeee mu mpamvu zateye nyine jenocide uretse nyine kuruhande rw'abazungu kuko ari ikintu umuntu yashyiramo ariko bisa naho ari imbarutso n'ibitero by'impunzi,ibitero by'impunzi byatangiriye mu nyenzi ngirango zaje nkincuro cyane cyane izo muri mirongo itandatu nagatatu zaje zigera mu kanzenze zitera ubwoba rero abaturage bahano batangira ….. umututsi wese ibyo nibintu birebire ngirango kubisubiramo byavuna ngirango izindi mpunzi zateye za …..zikomeye n'inkotanyi ndabyihutisha kuko turabisubiramo byose. 00:32:35 Muzungu Aho inkotanyi ziziye rero ho rero bitera ubwoba cyane abaturage bino byabindi byo kurwana ku mipaka bazishubijesho ngirango ubwambere muri mirongo cyenda ngirango haza nibyibyitso umututsi wese akitwa ikitso hagira nigihe hagera bya bindi byo kubarunda hariya I nyamirambo ibyo byose ukabona yuko umuntu yavuga yuko jenocide yabonye imbarutso cyangwa yakajijwe n'ikintu cyubwoba ndibuka hari umupadiri wigeze kunsanga ikinshasa sinkibuka umwaka ariko n'imbere ya jenocide ariko n'inyuma ya mirongo urwenda nyine arambwira ati mbwira benewanyu nkaho mbategeka ati bwira benewanyu be gutera kuko nibatera nta gatutsi na kamwe bazasanga mu rwanda noneho ndavuga nti abari hanze bazareka gushaka gutaha kugirango abemeye kuguma mu gihugu badapfa. 00:34:03 Muzungu Ati nuko rero ukabona ariko ko mubyukuri abategetsi bahano bumvise ko ubundi ni nabyo navugaga cyari icyaha gikomeye ko impunzi zizahera nta kundi abari hano mugihugu bazabapfukirana ariko baranakosa noneho nti babapfukirana neza ngo bareke birire utwabo wenda bo kujya mubutegetsi barabakurikina hose mubyukuri iyo babasangizaho gato bakabareka bakirira ntibyari kuba impunzi rero za shushe nkaho ziteye ubwoba abo bategetsi ba MRND n'amashyaka yazifashaga ndetse kuberako kuberako bari bazanye n'ikintu kironda karere bya byaye amashyaka menshi. 00:35:14 Muzungu Ashaka mbese ubutegetsi bushingiye ku mashyaka menshi nabyo rero bitera ubwoba MRND icyo nacyo n'ikintu umuntu yakongeramo amashyaka menshi afatanya nazampunzi zari impunzi nshya z'inkotanyi. 00:35:35 Muzungu Kurwanya nibura ibyirondakarere bisa urugamba rw'inkotanyi n'amashyaka yandi na MRND n'icyana cyayo SDR ehh bagize ubwoba basanze rero nta kundi ari ukwiguza bakikiza abo bose batavuga kimwe ngirango icyo nacyo umuntu wenda yagishyiramo……. Bya arusha icyo gihe inkotanyi zabonye byanze banze kudohora bakomeza kwica hirya no hino barakataza bagera hakurya aha ngaha niko tubizi hanyuma rero abazungu bagiraga bati ee ubwo ziriya nkotanyi mutagishoboye kuzirukana muribeshya dore zigeze kumu ku irembo rya kigali noneho mureke mwumvikane. 00:36:42 Muzungu Ngirango naho rero habyarimana nabambari be n'amashyaka yandi bahuje umugambi wuko basangira ubutegetsi baciye mu mishyikirano ya arusha ngirango nuko arusha yaje ngirango nuko ibintu byo gutegura jenocide byaje kuza nyine gato gato imbarutso yabyo kuko byagize igihe habyarimana yemera ariko ukabona yuko atemeye bakabivuga nawe akabivuga akora ibipapuro abandi bakagenda bakabivuga bati tugiye gutegura jenocide ukabona barasinye ariko badasinye. 00:37:34 Muzungu Bagasinya badasinye usanga arusha mbese mubyukuri ariyo yasukumye imbarutso………… indege ya habyarimana bahanuye urebye rero simbizi urebye sinzi uwayihanuye niba yagaragara ariko nagirango aho kwanga tuvuze za mpunzi zashatse gusubira mugihugu bikananira zigashyiraho ingufu bagashaka ukuntu ingufu zitakora bagashyiraho imishyikirano nayo bikagera igihe imishyikirano bayanze bagira bati nti twasangira n'impunzi nti twasangira n'inkotanyi reka noneho dushake ukuntu tuzinesha …. Nabazifasha ibyitso byazo biri ariko imbarutso yabyo rero nuku nabazifasha bandi naya mashyaka. 00:38:39 Muzungu Tudahuje…… ariko imbarutso yabyo ni ugutikuramo iturufu y'indege ya habyarimana uwayigize rero simuzi ariko uwo muntu agombe kuba ariwe washakaga yuko guturitsa isasu rya mbere rya jenocide yeeeeeeeeeeee. 00:39:00 Muzungu Ngirango aho ngaho niba hari ikindi kibazo ngirango naho umuntu yaba ahiniye niyo mpamvu ngirango ya jenocide yikubitiro wenda ukaza kuvuga abayishakaga nabatayishakaga niki abayishakaga rero murabumva abayishakaga nibande? Abayishakaga hehehe ni MRND n'abantu be abantu be ni bande? Ni ba SDR mubyukuri nibo bashatse ibyo byose mubihe byose abari bamuri inyuma bamufashije nyine abakoroni. 00:39:45 Muzungu Ari abakera wenda bakeya bamufashishe ariko cyane cyane abanyuma nyine babafaransa twavuze bari barabisomye kuva kuri kayibandi kugirango bakomeze bwa bukoroni bwabo niki nibo babafashije barabishakaga biragaragara abatabishakaga nabo barumvikana nyine hari nababizize ni abatutsi muri rusange bose kandi ndetse umuntu akaba yashyiramo nabayirwanyaga muri icyo gihe cyo gushakira ubutegetsi abatware ba mashayaka nibo ……… urebye mu ijoro rya mbere nibo babanje bahereyeho bariya ba agata nibo bapfuye ba mbere. 00:40:54 Muzungu Ubwo rero ngirango…………. 00:40:58 Martin Nasa nk'umuntu ukubaza nk'akantu ushobora kugira icyo watubwiraho cyangwa se wenda nk'umuntu waba warakozeho analyse ukareba itandukanirizo rya jenocide ukareba nizindi zagiye ziyibanziriza kuko iyo ugiye kwitegereza usanga nk'ubwicanyi bwagiye buba muri za mirongo itandatu na kabiri muri za mirongo itanu n'icyenda butandukanye cyane nubwabaye muri mirongo icyenda na kane kuko abantu bagiraga batya bagahungira ahari ibigo by'ubutegetsi bagahungira ahari za kiriziya abantu bakavuga bati reka tujya ahantu hari ubutegets ntacyo tuzaba kandi nibyo koko abantu bagiye bahungira aho ubutegetsi buri na za kiriziya harimo abantu bapfaga kurokoka. 00:41:36 Martin Ejo bundi rero mirongo icyenda na kane ibaye abantu bibwirako aho bahungiye bashobora kuhahungira wenda bakarokoka ariko siko byagenze wenda urugero natanga nka hantu hari hagiye hari za kiriziya ndavuga abakirisitu bazo kuko abantu bagiye babahungira kuberako banahasengeraga noneho ahubwo rimwe na rimwe ugasanga bafashe icyemezo cyo kuyisenya abantu bakanayigwamo ibi bintu byo mwabivugaho iki? 00:42:02 Muzungu Icyo nabivugaho kiroroshye rwose niko bimera iyo umuntu atangira ikintu mbere navuzeko…… kuva muri mirongo itanu n'icyenda habayeho imyitozo yaganishaga aho ntahandi byaganishaga nk'umuntu uzi kureba mu bwenge naho byaganishaga nta handi umuntu yari aziko ari aho bizagera nta handi ariho bizagera biva kuri speek byose yari amaze kuvugako umututsi ariwe mwanzi w'igihugu umwepisikopi akavuga ati umututsi ni mubi muri kamere kandi aziko umuntu yaremwe n'Imana. 00:42:42 Muzungu Bakavuga bati ni umu ethiopia bati inzira y'ubusamo ni nyabarongo ntihagire induru ivuga bati ibyo bintu biragatsindwa igisigaye nukureba niba byashoboka koko. 00:42:56 Muzungu ……. Bagerageza bagakozaho ngo barebe koko niba byanga ubwa mbere barabanje kayibanda agitangira babakuye barabimuye ….. yatangiye agirango agire zone tutsirande …na huturande ntiyari aziko byakunda kubica kandi koko ntibyari gukunda iyo logista ataza n'abazungu ngo bahaguruke kuko bari baziko bishoboka bagiye rero bakora imyitozo buhoro buhoro n'abantu bari baziko bizira barabitinyuka burya niko bigenda icyo umuntu yatinye akagenda agitinyuka ukagirango ahari nugikora inkuba iragukubita ntigukubite. 00:43:38 Muzungu Buhoro buhoro bica abantu bikamenyera muri mirongo irindwi na gatatu niho abantu bihaye Imana bahunze muburyo bugaragara nka seminari ya nyundo barayirukana yose irahunga nibwo bwa mbere cyaraziraga ababikira bahunga barirukana nibwo bwambere batema batinyuka gutema mu ngo hari abafurere biciwe I kabwayi kayibanda na musenyeri perode bari mu iseminari ntoya ehh urumva nibintu bigiye biza buhoro buhoro bimenyerwa icyo watinyaga ukagitinyukaa yee buhoro buhoro bigera noneho rero niyo umaze gukora ikintu kibi rero niyo umaze gukora ikintu kiba uti wa mugani ……. Bigize atya. 00:44:38 Muzungu Agizwe no kurangiza wa mugani mubi uko bagenda bakora amaraso bamenyera batinyuka iyo umuntu rero amaze kumenyera kwica amaraso ageraho akayamenyera akamera nk'igisimba bageze igihe………. 00:44:55 Martin .. nifuzaga kukubaza ikibazo tugana k'umusozo jenocide irabaye irarangiye birumvikanako mu muryango nyarwanda hacitsemo ibice hari ababiciye hari abarokotse habayeho ikibazo gikomeye kubantu bari basanzwe babana noneho uyu munsi hari gacaca y'ubumwe n'ubwiyunge gacaca ishobora gutanga ngirango nk'ikintu cyatuma abantu biyunga kuko haba habayeho kubwizanya ukuri ariko nge ikibazo narimfite ahangaha navugaga nti kera nkamwe mwabayeho ku myaka irimbereho kuruta iyacu yubu … abanyarwanda bayikoraga noneho nkaba nagirango mungereranyirize gacaca yicyo gihe n'iyubu ese mubona koko mubyukuri gacaca ari igisubizo cy'abanyarwanda ku kibazo nka kiriya bashobora kongera bakabana nk'umuryango nyarwanda? 00:45:54 Muzungu Eeeeeeeeehhh gacaca ya kera ni yubu ntibishobora kuba kimwe kuberako ikintu cya jenocide nti kigeze kibaho kera ibyabagaho ibijya gusa nka gacaca habaga inama ….. tuvuge nk'urubanza rw'imiryango. 00:46:17 Muzungu Kare nigeze kubabwira ko kera abanyarwanda babagaho bari mu muryango inzu ubwoko n'igihugu kandi muri buri muryango habaga harimo umutware n'abanyamuryango bakuru bawo icyo gihe habaga hari nk'ikintu cy'icyaha cyabayeho iyari mu muryango barateranaga uwakoze icyaha bakamushyira mu ruhame akirega cyangwa se bakamurega hakaba urubanza akatirwa urubanza rukwiye iyo habaga ari icyaha cyakozwe nundi muryango tuvuge bishe umuntu niwo henda gusa na gacaca yubu byitwaga inzigo icyo gihe rero barahoraga niryo ryari itegeko umuryango wiciwe warahoraga niryo tegeko. 00:47:21 Muzungu Umuntu k'umuntu ariko habaga iyo bagira imbabazi bagahora insina ni ukuvuga …………. Bakayitema ikaba isimbuye umuntu ariko umuryango wabishe wasabaga imbabazi ugatanga ikiru n'impongano hanyuma rero rya tegeko ryo guhora ryo kwica umuryango wishe bahorera uwabo bagahora insina urumva rero kera harimo ibyo bintu byinshi guhana icyaha nuwakoze icyaha n'imbabazi byabagaho ari ibyo ngibyo bibiri urebye no mubyubungubu nabyo birimo byombi birimo gacaca ifitemo icyambere cyuko batagomba korohera tuvuge mbese nukogeza nkuko babigiraga hambere. 00:48:36 Muzungu Abagizi ba nabi ikibi kigomba guhanwa niyo mpamvu numvako gacaca kubihana ni ngombwa rwose kuba rero itagomba igomba no guhana umutumba kwica umutumba kutica abantu mbese ikagira imbabazi mbese gukuraho igihano cyo kwica bakaza kugikuraho kikavaho rwose muri senat se cyavuyeho? Nibyo mvuga nyine kirimo kiravaho ……… ntibirarangira ariko biri munzira zo kuvaho rwose mubyukuri …. No guhora umutumba nibyo byo kubabarira rero ubigenzuye rero impamvu njye ndeba abanyarwanda bapfuye ari miriyoni irenga bakurikije rero icyo cyo kuvuga ngo umuntu arahora itegeko ryo kuvuga ko iyo umuntu yiciwe undi wundi muryango nawe yica agahora ………. Miriyoni zigeze kuri ebyiri cyangwa eshatu. 00:49:55 Muzungu Abanyarwanda rero ukumvako baba bahashiriye ningombwa rero byanze bikunze ko bashaka ikintu gisimbura guhora rero nta kundi ndetse ugasanga ahubwo ariwo muti ukwiye ninawo unashoboka kuko ntago wavuga ngo ugiye kubica ntibagukundi ntiwababona bya bindi intambara ikongera ikarota ukica nabarenze babandi bambere nta nubwo binakwiye rwose ahubwo wenda umuntu yavuga ati uburyo ikorwa ntibwuzuye. 00:50:39 Muzungu Cyangwa se mu bihano batanga rero ndumwe mu bantu bagize igitekerezo cyangwa ijambo kera bagitekereza uko byagenda cyane cyane ……. Hari nakanyamateka nandika kabigiyemo impaka birananditse niba bose ari kimwe ukibuka no kubishyira mu nzego urwego rwa mbere ……bintu bakabishyira mu mutwe bakabyiyemeza bashaka ukuntu noneho bakoresha rubanda nutabifite bakushyiraho ingufu bakabimutongera twari twigeze kuvuga ukuntu abantu bashoboye kubivuga bakabyemera ukuntu ari abakirisitu cyangwa se basanganywe impuhwe abantu kumvako abantu bemeye gutemagurira abandi mu masengero. 00:51:38 Muzungu Mbese nabihaye Imana bakabijyamo ibintu bidakwiye kuba byanatekerezwa navuze rero kandi ko cyane cyane byatewe no gutozwa ubwoba bwajemo byageze n'igihe abantu biheba,bigeze kumbwirako hari umuntu wigeze kuvuga ngo baratanzwe ngo burya bwose baratanzwe …… ngo bazapfa ngo nuguta igihe …… mwaratanzwe muzapfa baratanzwe byararangiye nkuko kera umwami yatangaga umuntu nuwamubyaye akamwica ngo umwami yamutanze bose bakamwica nabenewabo bkamwica . 00:52:25 Muzungu Byarangiye bigeze igihe rero bavugako umututsi byarangiye agomba gupfa ariko nibagiwe….. harya twavugaga iki? 00:52:36 Martin Twari turi kuri gacaca turimo tuyigereranya na gacaca yahozeho niyubu niba koko mubyukuri gacaca ishobora kuzabyara umusaro ushobora gutuma umuryango nyarwanda wiyubaka nkuko byari biri? 00:52:58 Muzungu Eeeeeeeehhhh naho ……… urumva nyine ibya kera si kimwe ubu noneho twavuga tuti ubu se bizakunda?kunga noneho tuvuge no guhana icyambere no guhana ubwabyo birimo bariya Bantu mujya mubyumva harimo guhana no kunga …….. hari abantu bafite icyo kintu cyo kuvuga ngo gacaca nti ihana ababiteye ntibahanwe nicyo kibazo kumva rero navugaga iby'inzego nibyo byari binshitse ko nari ndi no muba…… inzego niko kantu kari kanshitse mu kanya ndavuga nti ababiteye nicyo gacaca iruhijeho …… abenshi ntibibageraho abahanwa cyane ni abakoreshejwe. 00:53:58 Muzungu Ngo ababiteye ni bande nabo hejuru nyine …. Habyarimana uwamuhannye ninde wenda uwamuhanuye niwe wamuhannye ariko hari benshi babicunze tuvuge ababafashije simbavuga amazina simvuga ngo ndabavumba ntacyo mbavumbaho ariko …… ababafashije murabazi baravugwa mu binyamateka niki. 00 :54 :24 Muzungu Abafashije interahamwe na bishe bose kwica baravugwa abenshi ntibahanwa bari kure bafite amaboko ujya wumva arusha abenshi abo irega ntibaboneka bakabuga n'abandi bari mubufaransa ntibashyikirwa nibo babizanye kandi bigishije ya madini hari abo nahoze mvuga…..ababyigishije nanabavuze bamwe babyanditse mubitabo babitoje abana mu mashuri bavuga ko umututsi ari mubi abo bose nibo bakwiye guhanwa kurusha abandi bazabakura he ? nicyo urumva rero biraruhije ariko rero ibyo aribyo byose ibibi birarutana. 00 :55 :14 Muzungu Gacaca niwo muti ushobotse kandi mwiza nako kunga byo birumvikana ……. Kuvuga rero ni ukuvuga ngo iyo uvuze ngo abahutu bose barishe nange rimwe na rimwe hari ubwo mbivuga nkekako ari nkibyo ukagira uti …… twe tugiye hariya turahagurutse turemezako turi abahutu kandi turanzeko badusiga icyaha twebwe tugiye kugiye kugira agatsiko kabahutu kemezako ibyo tutabyemera tubyitandukanije kandi turabirwanya abantu baduhemukiye banduza izina ryacu……. 00 :56 :14 Martin ……. Hari igihe nange nigeze ….. jenocide yarabaye abacitse ku icumu ….. za avega …… abantu bagize ibibazo kumugani wawe tugiye kuvuga kuri ibi bintu by'abantu ….. by'abahutu…….. ntibizongere kubaho ukundi. 00 :56 :45 Muzungu Justement nicyo nifuza ngewe……………….. ariko ikibabaza nuko batagira bati ibyo bintu turi abahutu ubu jenocide si ubwoko ubu jenocide…………………………………….. abigenzi bateye kwica ntibabonetse …….. batarafatwa ikindi abariho nubwo ntawashima ko babyitabiriye niki……… u rwanda rusanzwe rusanzwe rw'ingufu nkeye hari abahutu bahise………………………. Hari nubwoba ati nutajya kuri bariyeri urapfa nawe abo nabo barafungwa sinavuga ngo nukurengana ariko ni hafi yo kurengana barabitojwe nako kantu rero cyakora gacaca yabishyizemo iratoranya ……………………. Koroshya burya biba birimo ………. …. Abo rero nibo bakwiye kubabarwa …….. badutoje icyo kwangana cy'amacakubiri cyo kiracyari kure kuko n'ikintu kibi kuko kiri mu mutwe w'umuntu nta kuntu wabona gacaca ….. mu bwonko bw'umuntu ngo umukuremo igitekerezo. 01 :00 :11 :20 Muzungu Hariho abantu bitazavamo icyabiteye rero sindakimenya kuki hari abantu umuhutu batoje ko ineza ye ariko umututsi atabaho. 01 :00 :31 :00 Muzungu ……..ntacyo bimumariye ntacyo bimwunguye gacaca izamutoza ite izamukosora ite ngo yumve ko bamushyizemo uburozi uwo kuburgora ninde gacaca sinzi ukuntu izarogora abo bantu kuko babatoje ko abantu babi…… inzoka abanyamayeri bavutse babica ….. hari umuntu wavuze ngo kanjogera yajyaga afata inkota agahagurukira kubibondo by'abana babahutu umwamikazi abana babahutu bajyaga ibwami akababyukiraho n'inkota bavuyehe ?bahuriye he ? 00:00:02:16 Martin Mwarimo mutubwira ibintu bya gacaca. 00:00:06:24 Padiri Ibintu bya gacaca mbona bizarushya mubyukuri ibyinshi izabigeraho. 00:00:11:16 padiri Mubyukuri gacaca niyo navuze ko ariwo muti warushobotse. 00:00:17:08 Padiri Kandi nkeka ko ari nawo mwiza rwose hari ibitazashoboka ngirango bizaruhanya. 00:00:23:06 Padiri Ngirango nayo itazashora ngirango bizashoborwa n'igihe no kugumya kwigisha. 00:00:32:22 Padiri No kuzumva nyine ko ntacyo imaze nababifite bakazabifamo nicyo kintu cy'urwango ubwo burozi. 00:00:45:21 Padiri Buturuka …. Kuri speak bugenda buza buhoro buhoro yuko bashyize mu mitwe y'abahutu bamwe. 00:00:57:08 Padiri Ko umwanzi wabo….. ari umututsi ubwo n'uburozi kumwumvisha rero ko ataribyo nta nukuntu azabikuramo. 00:01:16:03 Padiri Kuko atazamara yasiga ari umwe nta jenocide yumva izabaho icyo kintu kizamuhoramwo. 00:01:26:12 Padiri Uwo muti ngirango niwo gacaca itazabona vuba uzatangwa nibihe n'abantu niki……… 00:01:39:06 Martin Noneho rero naringiye nti kumugani nkuko mwabivuze ngo uzatangwa n'ibihe. 00:01:45:00 Martin Izo generation zagiye zihura n'ikibazo cyo kwigishwa ubwicanyi igihe kirekire. 00:01:49:17 Martin Ngirango ziri kugenda zivaho niko navuga kuko ubu abavuka uyu munsi barimo barigishwa ibintu byiza abandi nabo bigishijwe ibintu bibi barimo barasaza. 00:01:58:10 Martin Ubwo noneho mbonereho mbaze ikibazo cya nyuma tunasoza ibyo aribyo byose dukeneyeko nyuma ya jenocide. 00:02:09:05 Martin Y'igihumbi kimwe Magana acyenda na mirongo icyenda na kane buri muntu uwo ari we wese wayibayemo . 00:02:14:01 Martin Kugeza uyu munsi ukiriho yifuza ko yaba murwanda noneho rubanye neza rutarimo amacakubiri. 00:02:22:09 Martin Nta muntu ukeneye kuba mubwicanyi bwindengakamere bumeze kuriya noneho ahangaha. 00:02:28:10 Martin Nkaba numvaga nabasaga nti se u Rwanda rwejo cyangwa abana bari mukuvuka uyu munsi. 00:02:35:02 Martin Kuzubaka cyangwa kuzaba mu Rwanda rumeze neza rutarimo amacakubiri niyihe message mwaha abo bana. 00:02:45:24 Martin Ko aribo Rwanda rwejo kuburyo izabasha kubaka u Rwanda rutarangwamo amacakubiri? 00:02:56:14 Padiri Urumva nta messaga yagatangaza naba mfite nawe utazi twese tutazi icyo ndeba nugukurikiza icyo ndeba nugukurikiza inyigisho duhabwa. 00:03:13:14 Padiri N'ubutegetsi buriho ubungubu buvugako tuva inda imwe tugomba gutahiriza kumugozi umwe. 00:03:23:17 Padiri Kandi tukabona ifunguro ridukwiye twese kenshi na kenshi bya bindi byamacakubiri bavuga ngo abasangira ubusa. 00:03:33:06 Padiri Bitana ibisambo bigakubitiraho nyine ko amadiri twayayobotse yose. 00:03:41:12 Padiri Mubyukuri byose nugufiritira ngo tuve inda imwe twaremye n'Imana imwe cyane n'abakirisitu nibo benshi nahoze mbivuga. 00:03:49:09 Padiri Abakosheje benshi barimo nabemera Imana intaho nimwe n'Imana tuzasanga. 00:03:57:08 Padiri Ni ugukundana twese ntayindi message ndeba umuntu yanabona rwose. 00:04:06:02 Padiri Byibura no gukurikiza ibyo byose bidutoza kureba icyerekezo kimwe ……… rero maze kubavuga. 00:04:18:21 Padiri Ni amashuri nirwo ruhongore urebye ni naho abantu bagomba kwigishiriza bakomeje ubumwe. 00:04:28:13 Padiri Hanyuma utambyumva bakamufasha kubyumva, abatabyumva neza ….. nge niko nabyita. 00:04:41:22 Martin Murakoze.
| Identifier mike: | Kmc00015/kmc00015-vid2.mp4 |
| Title: | Oral Testimony of MUZUNGU Bernardini |
| Description: | The oral testimony of Rwandan elder MUZUNGU Bernardini recorded by the Kigali Genocide Memorial in Kigali, Rwanda, with the assistance of the National Museum of Butare, Rwanda. In two separate recordings, the testimony describes the political and cultural history of ethnicity in Rwanda. It is given in Kinyarwanda. |
| Media format: | mini-DV tape |
| Language: | kin |