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</mwdata><mwxhtml><wx:metadata><title>Oral Testimony Of UMULISA Marie Claire</title><generator type="gsmcreator">gsmcreator</generator><indexed>yes</indexed><incalendar/><abstract>The oral testimony of UMULISA Marie Claire, a survivor of the Genocide Against the Tutsi, recorded by the Kigali Genocide Memorial in Kigali, Rwanda. The testimony discusses early
      memories of childhood and family, discrimination and persecution of Tutsis before the Genocide, the worst atrocities during the Genocide, suffering and witnessing human rights abuses, surviving
      the Genocide, and life after the Genocide. The testimony is given in Kinyarwanda with translations available in English and French.  </abstract><lang>eng</lang><thumbnail src="kmc00063-thumbnail.jpg"/><authors/><publicationdate year="--" month="--" day="--"/><categories/><entity/><includeforum value=""/><protected/></wx:metadata><gm:gml>
    <gm:metadata>
      <id>kmc00063/kmc00063_vid1</id>
      <dc:title>Oral Testimony Of UMULISA Marie Claire</dc:title>
      <sequence num="1" total="2"/>
      <dc:abstract>The oral testimony of UMULISA Marie Claire, a survivor of the Genocide Against the Tutsi, recorded by the Kigali Genocide Memorial in Kigali, Rwanda. The testimony discusses early
      memories of childhood and family, discrimination and persecution of Tutsis before the Genocide, the worst atrocities during the Genocide, suffering and witnessing human rights abuses, surviving
      the Genocide, and life after the Genocide. The testimony is given in Kinyarwanda with translations available in English and French.</dc:abstract>
      <contributors/>
      <dc:publisher>Kigali Genocide Memorial</dc:publisher>
      <dates/>
      <language code="kin"/>
      <rights>Kigali Genocide Memorial</rights>
      <subjectheadings>
        <subjectheading>Genocide--Rwanda--History--20th century</subjectheading>
        <subjectheading>Genocide-Rwanda--Survivor</subjectheading>
        <subjectheading>Testimony--Rwanda</subjectheading>
        <subjectheading>Tutsi (African people)--Interviews</subjectheading>
        <subjectheading>Tutsi (African people)--Crimes against--Rwanda</subjectheading>
        <subjectheading>Rwanda--Ethnic Relations--History--20th Century</subjectheading>
        <subjectheading>Rwanda--History--Civil War, 1994--Atrocities</subjectheading>
      </subjectheadings>
      <dc:creator>UMULISA Marie Claire, Kigali Genocide Memorial</dc:creator>
      <formats>
        <format>mini-DV tape</format>
      </formats>
    </gm:metadata>
    <gm:gplayer type="rtmp" id="video1" src="rtmp://streaming.lib.utexas.edu/hrda-open/mp4:kmc/kmc00063/kmc00063-vid1.mp4" img="" width="480" height="360" style="style1" expand="true"/>
    <gm:itext type="toc" title="View Topics" player="video1">
      <gm:tm start="01:01" stop="" player="">Introduction</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="01:31" stop="" player="">Famous and infamous people 
      <gm:tm start="01:33" stop="" player="">Habyarimana Juvenule</gm:tm></gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="01:31" stop="" player="">Government and Political Life 
      <gm:tm start="01:34" stop="" player="">Death of Habyarimana</gm:tm></gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="01:25" stop="" player="">Political Parties and Movement 
      <gm:tm start="02:40" stop="" player="">Death Threats</gm:tm></gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="03:21" stop="" player="">Hiding 
      <gm:tm start="03:22" stop="" player="">(In Sorghum)</gm:tm></gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="03:56" stop="" player="">Destruction Of Property</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="12:32" stop="" player="">Survival At The Roadblock</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="16:04" stop="" player="">Gunshots 
      <gm:tm start="16:19" stop="" player="">Flight Through Kanyinya 
      <gm:tm start="17:18" stop="" player="">Back to Runda</gm:tm></gm:tm></gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="17:40" stop="" player="">Liberation And Post Liberation Life 
      <gm:tm start="17:50" stop="" player="">Camping At Runyenzi</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="18:20" stop="" player="">Re-appearance Of My Brother</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="21:16" stop="" player="">Back To School 
      <gm:tm start="23:35" stop="" player="">FARG</gm:tm></gm:tm></gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="26:05" stop="" player="">Survival For Life</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="31:10" stop="" player="">Psychological, Emotional and Cognitive Experience 
      <gm:tm start="31:12" stop="" player="">Postwar Reflection upon Gacaca 
      <gm:tm start="32:18" stop="" player="">Reflection upon Unity And Reconciliation</gm:tm></gm:tm></gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="33:30" stop="" player="">Life As A Genocide Survivor</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="39:12" stop="" player="">Advise To Orphans</gm:tm>
    </gm:itext>
    <gm:itext type="toc" title="Table Of Contents" player="video1">
      <gm:tm start="01:01" stop="" player="">Introduction</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="01:05" stop="" player="">Pre-Genocide Experience 
      <gm:tm start="01:31" stop="" player="">Political Parties</gm:tm></gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="01:34" stop="" player="">Genocide Experience 
      <gm:tm start="02:08" stop="" player="">Abduction Of My Father</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="02:39" stop="" player="">Death Threats</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="05:14" stop="" player="">Flight 
      <gm:tm start="05:16" stop="" player="">(To Church)</gm:tm></gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="08:14" stop="" player="">Drowned In River</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="12:32" stop="" player="">Our Survival</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="13:39" stop="" player="">Fate Of My Mother</gm:tm></gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="17:38" stop="" player="">Post Genocide Experience 
      <gm:tm start="17:52" stop="" player="">Camping Site</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="21:44" stop="" player="">Ability To Go back To school</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="26:37" stop="" player="">Hardships In Life</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="31:13" stop="" player="">Reflection On Gacaca</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="32:17" stop="" player="">Reflection On Unity And Reconciliation</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="33:30" stop="" player="">Reflection On Genocide</gm:tm></gm:tm>
    </gm:itext>
    <gm:itext type="toc" title="View People" player="video1">
      <gm:tm start="01:01" stop="" player="">UMULISA Marie Claire</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="01:34" stop="" player="">Habyarimana</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="01:42" stop="" player="">Iyakaremye Emmanuel</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="03:29" stop="" player="">Karekezi</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="03:32" stop="" player="">Minani</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="06:31" stop="" player="">Byemayire</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="07:11" stop="" player="">Yansoneye</gm:tm>
    </gm:itext>
    <gm:itext type="toc" title="View Places" player="video1">
      <gm:tm start="01:00" stop="" player="">Kamonyi</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="01:09" stop="" player="">Gitarama</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="01:12" stop="" player="">Murehe</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="07:24" stop="" player="">Musenyi</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="08:57" stop="" player="">Runda</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="09:14" stop="" player="">Iraro</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="09:17" stop="" player="">Kamuhanda</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="09:19" stop="" player="">Kigali</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="10:33" stop="" player="">Nyagatovu</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="11:43" stop="" player="">gihinga</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="12:39" stop="" player="">Ruzege</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="13:10" stop="" player="">Nyamiyaga</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="13:12" stop="" player="">Musambira</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="13:20" stop="" player="">Kabwayi</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="16:31" stop="" player="">Tabo</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="16:41" stop="" player="">Kanyinya</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="17:11" stop="" player="">Nyabikenke</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="17:14" stop="" player="">Buringa</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="17:17" stop="" player="">Gisenyi</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="17:51" stop="" player="">Ruyenzi</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="18:53" stop="" player="">Zaire</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="24:50" stop="" player="">Kimironko</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="28:07" stop="" player="">Shyorongi</gm:tm>
    </gm:itext>
    <gm:itext type="transcript" title="Ubuhamya Bwanditse" player="video1">
      <gm:tm start="01:00" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Jyewe banyita Umulisa Marie Claire , Nkaba...mbere y'intambara twari dutuye mu Karere ka Kamonyi, Précture Gitarama, Umurenge wa...wa
      Murehe.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="01:14" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Intambara ijya kuba, usibye ko jye ntari mbisobanukiwe cyane, nari nkiri mu…nari nkiri umwana. Habanje ibintu by'amashyaka. Amashyaka
      akazajya ashyamirana MRND na MDR cyane nibyo…nibyo nari nkunze kumenya. Nyuma y'amashyaka Habyalimana amaze gupfa, ndibika yuko twari dufite umu Conseiller witwa Iyakaremye Emmanuel, yaje mu
      rugo abwira Papa ngo: we ari mu rihe shyaka? Papa aramubwira ngo: ishyaka rye riri ku mutima ntabwo ari ngombwa kubimubwira. Hashize nk'icyumweru mu…muri Secteur y'iwacu haza aba…abantu bavuye
      mu yindi secteur, baje ngo kwica abantu b'abatutsi. Bageze mu rugo Papa baramutwara, bamaze kumutwara baramubwira ngo nabahe amafranga. Icyo gihe Papa yamuhaye ibihumbi mirongo itatu [30.000
      frw], arongera aragarauka. Hashize iminsi nk'ibiri, icyo gihe hari ku cyumweru, twagiye gusenga, tuvuye gusenga papa ara…baraza bageze mu rugo bahamagara Papa, twese tujya ku muharuro
      baramubwira ngo: twese bagiye kutwica. Ubwo batwara inka zari ziri mu rugo baragenda barazirya, ariko icyo gihe ntabwo batwishe. Hashize iminsi nk'i… hashize icyumweru inta…ubwo… noneho
      intambara iba ibaye ku Karere kose.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="03:00" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire": Ubwo baraje, bamaze kuza, icyo gihe hari mu gitondo, bakomanga ku rugi rwo ku irembo, ubwo abana twari turi mu rugo twahise dusimbuka
      urugo na Mama, ariko Papa we aguma mu rugo. Turagenda, inyuma y'iwacu hari hari amasaka, turagenda tuyihishamo. Abo bantu baraje ariko ntabwo twabashije kubamenya bose, twabashije kumenyamo
      abagabo babiri. Umwe yitwaga Karekezi undi yitwaga Minani. Baraza batwara Papa, bamujyana haruguru ‘ku gacenter' kari gahari, baramwicaza ngo: baramukubita. Ariko ntabwo bahise bamwica. Hashize
      iminsi nk'ibiri tukiri muri ya masaka, ubwo baragarutse ariko Papa yari ikiriho bari bataramwica. Ubwo baraza barasambura inzu, bakuramo n'ibintu byose, n'urugo bararutwika. Hashize umunsi
      umwe, ubwongubwo…Papa nyine ntabwo twari tuzi irengero rye, ya masaka twari turimo inyuma y'urugo, turi kumwe na mama n'abana bose, mu rugo twari abana batanu. Ubwongubwo ab'abahungu bahise
      baducika baragenda, nsigara ari jyewe na Maman na Mukuru wanjye. Bigejeje nimugoroba turagenda ahantu ku musozi w'iwacu, tugeze…tuhageze ku musozi twihisha ahantu mu mwo…ku mukokwe. Ubwongubwo
      bigejeje nka nimugoroba turagenda, mama aratujyana mu rugo twari duturanye, tuhageze Mama arababwira ngo: jyewe nibampishe [kuko ari jyewe wari mutoya mu bana b'iwacu]. Ubwo mama baramubwira
      ngo: "ntabwo bemerewe ngo kubika Inkotanyi." Ubwo twahise dusubira nanone inyuma, turagenda, turongera tujya ahantu mu masaka turihisha. Ubwo hashize iminsi nk'ibiri, mama aravuga ati: "noneho
      mureke tugende nanone tujye ahantu ku kiliziya abe ari mo tujya.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="05:17" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Tugeze ku kiliziya…icyo gihe twageze ku kiliziya nka saa yine. Tuhageze tujya mu kiliziya mo imbere tumaramo iminsi itatu, hashize iminsi
      itatu baraza badukuramo bagiye kutujyana mu ruzi. Hashize…ubwo turagenda tugeze ku gacenter, mama baramugumana, twebwe baratubwira ngo: nitugende. Twanga gusiga Mama, jyewe na mukuru wanjye,
      baradukubita. Badukubise kubera ko twari abana, turemera Mama turamusiga turagenda. Tujya ahantu twari duturanye na none ku rugo, urwo rugo kubera ko bari inshuti z'iwacu, jyewe na Mukuru
      wanjye turagenda, tugeze inyuma yaho, ubwongubwo twihisha munsi y'urugo, tubona umukobwa wo muri urwo rugo n'umuhungu musaza we, turabahamagara tugirango wenda baratugirira impuhwe batujyane mu
      rugo baduhishe.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="06:16" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Ubwo twarabahamagaye, bamaze kuza baratubwira, ngo: "bene wacu babasize muri he?" Ubwo bahise badufata jyewe na mukuru wanjye, batujyana ku
      Nterahamwe yicaga abantu cyane yitwaga Byemayire, batugejejeyo ngo Byemayire atwice, dusanga Byemayire ntawe uhari. Baradukomezanyije batujyana ahantu ku ‘gacentere' kari gahari, ngo wenda
      twahasanga izindi Nterahamwe gakushwa, kugirango wenda zibe zatwica. Turagenda tuhasanga abagabo babiri, bamaze kutubona, baratubwira bati: "aba bana ntabwo twabica, papa wabo yari umuntu mwiza
      yatugiriraga neza, nimubareke bazagwe ahandi." Turamanuka…ariko wa muhungu bamwitaga Minani, na mushiki we bamwita Yansoneye, bo barakomeje baratujyana. Baragenda ngo bagiye kutwereka
      Interahamwe ngo zitwice, baragenda batugejeje ahantu bita ku musenyi, jyewe nanirwa kugenda, kubera ko nari ndushye. Uwo bitaga Minani yarantemye, antema ku kaguru, ngo nihute.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="07:40" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Bamaze kuntema ariko turagenda, ntabwo nahise ncika intege kugirango, wenda ku buryo ntabashije ubugenda, narakomeje ndagenda. Turagenda
      tumanuka umusozi jyewe na mukuru wanjye, tugeze haruguru ku musozi bahamagara abo hasi ku ruzi ngo: "tubazaniye Inkotanyi, ngo: nimwitegure." Barakomeza baratumanukana, batugejeje ku ruzi,
      bafata mukuru wanjye bamuhekesha igiti, bampekesha amabuye abiri, batujugunya mu ruzi. Ubwo mu ruzi twamazemo iminsi ibiri, tugiye kubona… ….jyewe mvamo ngwa mu bisheke, mukuru wanjye agwa
      hakurya y'uruzi, ntabwo twagu… …ntabwo uruzi rwatujugunyiye ahantu hamwe. Ubwo hashize iminsi nk'ibiri jye nari ndi mu bisheke, ariko mukuru wanjye sinari nzi aho ari, naherukaga bagiye kuduta
      mu ruzi. Ubwo nagumye mu bisheke nambaye ubusa, imyenda yose nari nambaye ntayi…ntaa… navuyemo nta mwenda ngifite. Ubwo kubera ko hari famille twari dufite ahantu bitaga muri Runda, hari
      umukecuru wari nyirasenge wa Mama. Ariko nkaba ntari mpazi neza. Ubwo baduta mu ruzi…baduta mu ruzi, badutereye ahantu bita ku Iraro, twiburukiye ahangaha hafi ya Kamuhanda, ku kiraro kigabanya
      Kigali na Gitarama .Ubwo bumaze kwira nazamutse ahantu bita ku musozi wa Kagina, ndagenda ari ninjoro, nka saa saba z'ijoro.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="09:32" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Ndagenda, ndakomeza ndazamuka… …ndazamuka, bujya nko gucya nka saa…nka saa kumi, urwo rugo nirwo na…niho nahageze. Ndagenda ndakomanga,
      maze gukomanga kubera yuko nahaherukaga kera… barankingurira, mpageze nsanga mama yagezeyo. Ndabasuhuza, Mama akimbona agahinda karamwica, arambaza ngo: "mukuru wanjye ari he?" Mubwira yuko
      bagiye kuturoha mu ruzi twari kumwe, ariko we sinzi irengero rye. Ubwo turahaguma jye na Mama hashize iminsi nk'ibiri, ngiye kubona mbona mukuru wanjye nawe araje Turamubaza: "ese wowe waje
      ute?" aramubwira ngo: "avuye ahantu hakurya y'uruzi, ahantu bita i Nyagatovu." Ubwo turagumana uko turi batatu. Ariko umugabo wo muri urwo rugo, we ntabwo yahigwaga kuburyo bamwica, niwe wari
      waduhishe. Ariko umudamu we, yari Nyirasenge wa mama, nawe mubicwa yabaga arimo. Ariko kuko yari yarashatse umugabo w'umuhutu, we nta kintu bamurebagaho. Turakomeza turahihisha turi batatu,
      jyewe na mama na mukuru wanjye. Hashize icyo gihe hari mu kwaa… intambara mbese yari igeze hagati, ariko bikiri mu kwa kane. Bigejeje mu kwa gatanu, uwo mugabo aravuga ngo: ntabwo agiye
      kuzazira Inkotanyi, ngo: twese tugende, ngo niba uwo mukecuru, uwo twari dufitanye rélation [isano] ngo niba yumva ko yakomeza akaduhisha, ngo nawe tujyane.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="11:28" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Ubwo bwarakeye mu gitondo, twese turagenda, jyewe na mama na mukuru wanjye. Tumanuka ahantu bita i Runda, tugera ahantu bita i Gihinga,
      tuhageze tugera kuri bariyeri [barrière] baradutangira. Bamaze kudutangira, turahagarara, mama baramubwira, ngo: "nazane ibyangombwa," arabibura. Baramubwira ngo: "abo bana se ngo: ni abande?"
      Mama aravuga: " si abanjye. Ngo: ni abo tugendana gusa." Mama bamwicaje ku cyobo, natwe twanga kugenda. Ubwo tuguma ahongaho dutegereza yuko batwica turabibura. Ubwo hashize akanya Interahamwe
      ziraza, zimaze kuza, havamo umugabo umwe aravuga, ngo: "uyu mukecuru ngo aramuzi, ngo ntabwo ari umututsi." Ubwo ahongaho twaraharokotse turagenda. Kubera ko nari mfite marene [marraine] ahantu
      bita mu Ruzege. Mama anjyanayo ngo anjyane ahongaho kwa marene [marraine] .Twaragiye tugeze kwa marraine, baravuga ngo: "ntabwo babika abantu bose ngo batabica, ngo jyewe barangumana, mama na
      mukuru wanjye bagende." Njyewe narahagumye, mama na mukuru wanjye baragenda. Baragenda njyewe nguma ahongaho, baragenda kuko twari dufite na none famille ahantu bita i Nyamiyaga, muri Komine
      Musambira. Bagezeyo basanga nabo barabishe. Ubwo mama yahise ajya i Kabgayi, mukuru wanjye nawe, ha…abana bari basigaye ahongaho barakomeza barihishanya n' abongabo. Maman we amusiga ahongaho,
      nawe arakomeza ajya i Kabgayi. Maman ageze i Kabgayi ntabwo twamenye irengero rye, niba yarapfuye, niba atarapfuye… ariko ‘peut-être' [birashoboka] ko yapfuye kuko kuva intambara yarangira
      ntabwo twamubonye, nta nubwo twigeze tumenya urupfu rwe , ntitwamenye n'aho yaguye .</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="13:51" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Ubwongubwo mukuru wanjye aguma ahongaho, nanjye nguma kwa marene [marraine], hashize iminsi ibiri…ni ibiri yashize; mu gitondo marene
      [marraine] arambwira, ngo: "rero ngo: ntabwo nkomeza kukubika, ngo: nanjye ngo batazaza bakanyica. Ngo: none ibyiza, ngo urabizi ko wazanye hano na mukuru wawe, na mama wawe, kandi baragiye,
      none ibyiza ni uko wabakurikira aho bagiye." Mbwira marene [marraine] ‘ese nzagenda…ko n'inzira banyuzemo ntayizi, nzaca he?' Ngo: "uzagende ibyo birakureba. Wapfa , wakira…ngo: ubwo, ngo sinzi
      ukuntu byamera." Mu gitondo…[kubera ko nari ndwaye n'igisebe mu ivi bari barantemye, sinashoboraga kugenda neza]…Mu gitondo imvura iri kugwa turagenda…ndagenda jyenyine, ngeze ahantu ku kayira,
      ndavuga: ‘ese ubu ndajya he? Nderekeza he ? Mama sinzi aho yagiye. Mukuru wanjye sinzi aho yagiye. abo tuvukana bo reka, duherukana tuva mu rugo sinarinzi irengero ryabo. Ubu se ndajya he?'
      Nigira inama yo gusubira aho twari twa…aho twagiye intambara igitera, ahongaho muri Runda, ndongera nsubirayo. Ngezeyo, uwo musaza kubera ko nawe yari akaramye cyane ku bintu bya Jenoside,
      ariko akaba yari afite abahungu be, b'abana beza. Baramubwira bati: "uyu mwana ni umwana mutoya. Nta byangombwa bamubaza. None se ufite kibazo ki? Mubike wowe, kugeza igihe intambara
      izarangirira, Interahamwe nizizajya ziza ntizimuzi, uzajye uvuga ko ari umwuzukuru wawe."</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="15:50" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Ndahaguma ariko sinkamenye aho abo twari kumwe bagiye, intambara irakomeza, irakomeza, bigejejemo hagati nko mu kwa gatandatu intambara
      y'amasasu iraza. Ngera ahongaho muri Runda, tugeze muri Runda, ubwo Inkotanyi nyine zigeze muri Runda igihe amasasu yabaga, ubwo turahunga, duhunga twese. Ndeba gusigara mu nzu jyenyine
      biranshobera. Turongera na none twambuka ahantu kuko Runda yari iteranye na Taba. Kandi Taba niho yari iwacu. Turahanyura turagenda, ngeze ahantu bita i Kanyinya duhunga tuhasanga bariyeri
      [barrière]. Tuhasanze bariyeri barahagarika abantu, noneho bakagenda batureba mu biganza, abana batagiraga ibyangombwa. Bagenda batureba mu biganza, bandebye mu kiganza barambaza ngo iwacu ni
      hehe ? Ndababeshya mbabwira amazina atari ay'ababyeyi banjye barandeka. Turakomeza turagenda, tugera ahantu za Nyabikenke, tugera ahantu za Bulinga, hose turahazunguruka, tugeze ku Gisenyi
      turongera turagaruka, ubwo intambara yari imeze nk'ihosheje.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="17:25" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Turongera turagaruka tujya…nyine nsubira aho intambara yabaye ndi, kuko nta wundi muntu twari turi kumwe. Nsubira ahongaho muri Runda, maze
      gusubira muri Runda, ubwo intambara yari irangiye. Ubwo dusanga wa mukecuru aracyariho, ariko wa musaza yarapfuye. Turagenda tujya ahantu ku Ruyenzi mu nkambi, turahakambika. Hashira iminsi
      mikeya, nkajya ntegereza yuko nibura hari umuntu w'iwacu waza, ndamubura ngumana n'abongabo. Mu kwezi kwa munani muri 1994, icyo gihe nari ndi…twari twagiye mu misa, tuje dusa…nsanga mukuru
      wanjye yaje, mubonye nsanga ni nk'ibitangaza bikomeye. Mbere yo kumusuhuza naramubajije: "ese uri muzima?" Arambwira: "ndi muzima." "ntabwo wapfuye? Cyangwa ni umuzimu wawe ndi gusuhuza?"
      Arambwira: "oya ni jyewe ndi muzima." "Ese wabaga he?" arambwira ngo: yari…yageze nyine ahongaho i Musambira, ahongaho habaga amafamilles [imiryango] yacu, arakomeza yihishanwa nabo aragenda
      agera Zaire, arongera aragaruka.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="18:55" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Dutegereza yuko rero mama yaza, cyangwa dutegereza ko n'abandi bose bo mu rugo baza, turategereza turaheba. Abantu b'iwacu ntabwo tuzi
      urupfu bapfuye, nta nubwo tuzi ahantu babiciye. Kereka papa wenyine niwe biciye ahantu ku ‘gacenter', aho bamujyanye, niho bamutsinze.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="19:17" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Ubwo intambara irangiye, jyewe mu minsii… Kuva mu kwa munani, icyenda na kane [1994] kugeza mu kwa mbere, icyenda na gatanu [1995]
      niho…narakomeje mba ahongaho, aho narokokeye. Njyewe na mukuru wanjye uwonguwo, turakomezanya. Noneho basa nk'aho…bashaka kutugira abakoroni [kudukoroniza], intambara yabaye niga quatrième
      primaire [mu mwaka wa kane w'amashuri abanza], banga ko nsubira kwiga. Noneho kubera ko mukuru wanjye we…nawe ntabwo yari mukuru cyane, ariko we yari andushije ubwenge . Arareba ati: "ese ubu,
      ubu buzima tuzabugumamo gute?" Banze y'uko ujya kwiga, kandi nanjye banze y'uko nsubira kwiga." Bo ikintu bashakaga, bashakaga ngo: tujye twahira ibyatsi by'inka zabo, duhinge, tubavomere,
      mbese dukore akazi ko mu rugo, aricyo mbese tubamarira, noneho nabo babone ko ari cyo baturerera .</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="20:22" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Mukuru wanjye aragenda ansiga ahongaho, twari dufite umu Bourgmestre w'iwacu, nawe yari yaracitse ku icumu. Aragenda arabimubwira ukuntu
      ibintu bimeze, aramubwira ati: "ese ngukorere iki?" Muri abana ntabwo mushobora kujya mu nzu ukwanyu; ese mwajya mu nzu mugatungwa n'iki? Mwabaho mute? Nta na famille mwasigaranye, ngo nibuze
      iba protéger [ibarinde] mu buzima bwanyu? Mukuru wanjye aramubwira ati: "aho kugirango tugume mu buzima turimo, twaba mu nzu yacu twashaka tukanapfiramo." Ubwo hari hari inzu z'interahamwe,
      interahamwe zari zarahunze. Aduha inzu, amaze kuduha inzu, turagenda tuyibamo. Ubwo yari muri mirongo cyenda na gatanu [1995], nanjye nsubira kwiga. Mukuru wanjye we, areba gusubira kwiga
      biramushobera, kubera ko ntabwo yari kwiga ngo nanjye nige. Ubwo hashize iminsi mike, muri mirongo cyenda na…na gatandatu [1996], mukuru wanjye, Bourgmestre w'iwacu amuha akazi k'ubu
      percepteur. Aragenda abona akazi, noneho nanjye mbona ubushobozi bwo gukomeza kwiga. Muri mirongo cyenda na karindwi [1997], nibwo natangiye sécondaire, njya muri sécondaire, mukuru wanjye
      arakomeza arakora. Arakora bigejeje muri 2000, nari ndi muri quatrième sécondaire [muwa kane w'amashuri yisumbuye] ubwo mayor [umuyobozi w'akarere, wahoze ari ‘Bourgmestre'] wacu avaho. Haza
      undi. Noneho haje undi utatuzi, utazi ubuzima bwacu uko bumeze, baba obligés [biba ngombwa] yuko abantu badafite diplôme [impamyabushobozi] bava ku kazi. Mukuru wanjye ava ku kazi. ndi
      quatrième [mu mwaka wa kane]. Avuye ku kazi, noneho ubwongubwo kubera ko na FARG[ikigega gitera inkunga abacitse ku icumu rya Jenoside] yari imaze kuza, FARG [ikigega] ikazajya indihira, ariko
      mu kibazo cyo mu rugo ubuzima buratugora .</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="22:39" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Ariko icyo gihe ntabwo twabaga mu mugi wa Kigali, twabaga i Gitarama ku isambu. Ibwo iyo sambu, kubera ko mukuru wanjye agikora, ntabwo
      sambu ntiyigeze yangirika, yashyiragamo abantu bakayikora, ibivuyemo bikadutunga. Akimara guhagarara ku kazi, ubwo ibintu byari biri mu isambu nyine byarakomeje biradutunga. Noneho hashize
      iminsi, ngo haza itegeko rivuga ko umuntu wese, azasubiza iby'abandi. Ya nzu bayidukuramo. Bamaze kuyidukuramo, ubuzima buradukomerana. Ubwongubwo niho twahise twumva isi ihagaze, ariko mukuru
      wanjye agerageza kwegera FARG[ikigega…]. yegereye FARG, ubwo FARG yumva yuko ikibazo cyacu gikomeye, ikazajya iduha inkunga ya buri kwezi 20'000frw/mois [ibihumbi makumyabiri ku kwezi].</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="23:49" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Ubwongubwo muri 2001, aribwo nyine twabonaga n'ayo mafranga ya FARG, mukuru wanjye nawe… ubwo nari ngeze muri cinquième sécondaire. Abona
      ko [mukuru wanjye] ubuzima…ubuzima bwe nawe, bumaze ku, buzapondekara [buzangirika], kubera ko nta kintu yari yigejejeho. Kubera ko we intambara yabaye yiga deuxième sécondaire [umwaka wa
      kabiri w'amshuri yisumbuye]. Ubwo aravuga ati: "ugeze cinquième sécondaire [mu wa gatanu wisumbuye] , kandi urabona ko FARG iduprotega [iturwanaho] ikaduha ticket n'ibikoresho, none nanjye
      ngiye kureba uburyo najya kwiga . Ubwo nawe yahise ajya gushaka ishuri, nawe aragenda ariga. Ariga FARG [ikigega] irakomeza iradufasha, imaze kudufasha bigejeje muri 2002, ubwo FARG [ikigega]
      iduha inzu mu midugudu y'abana bibana hariya Kimironko . Imaze kuduha inzu tuyijyamo, FARG iba décentralisé [yegerezwa abaturage], gufasha abantu iba irabihagaritse. Imaze kubihagarika , ubwo
      jyewe nari ndangije kwiga…imaze kubihagarika ubwo njyewe nari ndangije kwiga…mbere yo kugirango nyine ihagarike kudufasha, ubwo ngewe nari ndangije kwiga. Ejo bundi, mbona ikiraka muri Ibuka,
      ndagikora, ubwo kiradutunga, na mukuru wanjye nawe abona ibikoresho byo kugirango ajye ku ishuri. Ikiraka kirahagarara, kimaze guhagarara ubuzima nabwo burahagarara.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="25:38" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Ubwo ubuzima rero, sinzi…sinakubwira ngo ubuzima bwacu bumeze gutya, ubuzima bwacu burakomeye. Wenda niba ugize ikibazo, ugerageza
      kukiihanganira, kuko nta wundi wacyereka. Ubu uwo mukuru wanjye nawe ageze nawe cinquième sécondaire [muwa gatanu w'amashuri yisumbuye]. Ariko nagize Imana nanjye ndangije mbona diplôme, ariko
      ubuzima bwacu kuri ubungubu ni ubuzima bugoranye. Wenda sinavuga ngo umuntu ariheba , ngerageza kwicalma [gutuza]. Kugirango wenda ubone imibereho, ni uko uba ubonye nk'umuntu akakugirira
      impuhwe, cyangwa se akakwibuka. Akavuga ati: "uyu mwana ibyo aribyo byose reka mufashe muri ubu buryo." Iyo utamubonye nabwo, ubwo nyine urakomeza bwa buzima bubi bugakomeza bukakugendaho.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="26:34" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Cyane cyane ariko, ubuzima budukomerera cyane…cyane, muri iki gihe ni ubuzima bw'imibereho. Kuko mu mibereho y'umuntu, iyo udafite ahantu
      ukura ikigutunga, ntubone n'umuntu ugufasha, ntubone n'umuntu ukwitaho, ntubone n'umuntu ukubaza ikikubabaje, igihe cyose wumva yuko ubuzima bwawe bugeze kure.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="27:35" stop="" player="">Pothin: Yee, hari utubazo tumwe nakubaza dukeya, icya mbere nakubaza, watubwiye ko babaroshye mu ruzi na mukuru wawe , hanyuma muza kubasha kuruvamo. Ese ni
      uruzi rwabanze? Ese urwo ruzi ni uruhe ?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="27:36" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Ni uruzi rwa Nyabarongo, ariko baraturohanye jyewe na mukuru wanjye, ariko ntabwo twiburukiye hamwe. Jyewe niburukiye hano Kamuhanda,
      niburuka ino aha. We yiburukira hakurya y'uruzi hirya. Aho yiburukiye ni ahantu bita i Nyagatovu, niho yiburukiye.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="27:57" stop="" player="">Pothin: Ese yaba yarakubwiye uburyo yambutse, agaruka aho mwari muturutse… aho mwahuriye nyine kugirango mwongere mubonane ?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="28:03" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Yee, yarakomeje atambika hano ku muhanda w'i Shyorongi, araza arongera agera hano ku kiraro kigabanya Runda na Taba, aza kuri uwo Mukecuru
      twari dufitanye…wo mu ma famille [wo mu muryango] wari Nyirasenge wa Mama.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="28:21" stop="" player="">Pothin: Watubwiye abantu b'interahamwe bari bafunze, nka ba Minani, Yansoneye n'abandi. Nonese waba wibuka… cyangwa waba uzi amaherezo yabo? Kuko Minani we
      ngirango yanagutemye ku kaguru.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="28:33" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Umh! Intambara ikirangira, uwo Minani twaraa… nyine tukiza twagiye kureba ku isambu ukuntu hameze, dusanga Minani arahari. Akimbona we
      ubwoba bwaramuriye, arambaza, ati: "ese muri wowe ndabizi naraguhemukiye, naragutemye. Mu kugutema numvaga ntakeneye yuko ubaho. None urumva nagukorera iki?" Naramubwiye nti: ku buzima bwange
      utarashakaga yuko mbaho, hari amategeko azaguhana. Twagiye kumurega ku Karere, baramufata baramufunga, ariko yaguye mu munyururu. We na mushiki we bose barabafashe, mushiki we aracyari mu
      munyururu , we afungiye i Gitarama, ariko Minani we yarapfuye yaguye mu munyururu.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="29:29" stop="" player="">Pothin: Izindi nterahamwe , zo hari n'ubwo wasanga ari nazo zakwiciye ababyeyi, cyangwa abandi bavandimwe, zo ibyabo byaba byaragenze gute?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="29:37" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Kubera ko mu gitero cyaje iwacu bwa mbere, umuntu twabashije kumenyamo cyane ni Karekezi. Ubwo niwe wagiye ajyana Papa, Kandi Papa kuva
      yagenda ntabwo yagarutse. Niba ariwe wamwishe, niba atari we kubera ko bari abantu benshi, ntabwo mbizi. Ariko gusa ni uko uwonguwo ari we namenye mo, uwo bitaga Karekezi niwe namenye mo gusa,
      amazina.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="30:14" stop="" player="">Pothin: Yaba akiriho se cyangwa…?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="30:14" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Ariho, bari baranamufunze. Karekezi yishe abantu benshi cyane, ba…ba… nawe iyo umubajije uti: "wishe abantu bangahe?" Aravuga ati:
      "simbazi." Bari baramufunze ariko nyuma baramufunguye, ngo: yarireze, yemera icyaha. Baramufunguye ubu ari mu rugo.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="30:34" stop="" player="">Pothin: None se nkomoje kuri ibyo, ndumva byaba byarabaye mu rwego rwa gacaca. Ubwo se iyo yemeye icyaha yemera ko yishe n'abo bantu?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="30:44" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Ntabwo mbizi ibyongibyo, niba abongabo nabo…niba abongabo nabo abemera yuko yabishe. Ariko we iyo umubajije aravuga ati: "nishe abantu
      benshi. Abo nishe sinzi umubare wabo, gusa nzi ko nishe abantu benshi."</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="31:02" stop="" player="">Pothin: None se yaba yaraje kubasaba imbabazi ?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="31:04" stop="" player="">Umulisa M. Claire: Oya, ntabwo yaje.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="31:07" stop="" player="">Pothin: None se dukomoje kuri ibyo, wowe utekereza iki kuri Gacaca ?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="31:13" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Njyewe kuri Gacaca ukuntu nyitekerezaho, abantu bishe, bishe babifitiye umugambi. Umuntu rero njyewe aje imbere yanjye, aje kunsaba
      imbabazi kubera ko yishe, yaranyiciye. Yishe abishaka kandi abikuye ku mutima, ni uko ubutegetsi bwamuhana bukurikije catégorie [urwego arimo] y'ukwica kwe.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="31:43" stop="" player="">Pothin: Hari ibintu bimwe biku… hari ikintu gikunze kuvugwa cyane kijyanye n'ubumwe n'ubwiyunge. Ese wowe nk'umuntu wagiriwe nabi bingana gutya, na n'ubu
      ukaba ukibayeho mu ngaruka zibyo bintu byabaye. Ubona bishoboka cyangwaa… wowe ubibona gute ?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="32:08" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Njyewe ku ruhare rwanjye, kubera nk'uko nabuze abantu nkaba nsigaye iheruheru. Njyewe umuntu wanyiciye, ni uko yahabwa igihano nawe
      kimutoucha [kimukoraho], nawe akumva yuko nawe yagize nabi. Kuko sinavuga wenda ngo… ngo nibamwice, si njyewe wabivuga yabibwirwa n'amategeko. Njyewe nta burengazira nabona, ariko jyewe ku
      bwanjye bamwica . Ariko ku burengazira bw'amategeko, bamuha igihano kijyanye n'icyaha yakoze.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="32:47" stop="" player="">Pothin: Nonese…eeh, ibyo aribyo byose iyo umuntu yanyuze mu bintu nk'ibyo wanyuzemo, akaba abaho mu buzima nk'ubwo uriho, kubera nk'ibyo wanyuzemo, aba afite
      umwihariko we. Wowe nko kuba umuntu wacitse ku icumu wumva ari ikintu…bivuze iki? Wumva wabisobanura gute…?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="33:10" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Mbisobanura ?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="33:12" stop="" player="">Pothin: Uvuga uti: "umuntu uwacitse ku icumu ameze atya, afite ibibazo bingana gutya, yiyumva gutya." Unakurikije n'ubuzima buriho, na… n'ibiriho bibaho
      byose, bigerageza gutunganya kiriya kibazo.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="33:29" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Nk'umuntu…nk'umuntu nkanjye wahuye n'ikibazo, ukuntu numva Jenoside. Hari ukuntu utekereza nk'ubuzima wagiye unyuramo, ukagereranya n'ubwo
      uriho ubu, ukabona ntaho wavuye, nta n'aho wagiye. Iyo ubonye bimeze gutyo, wiha amahoro. Kuko utihaye amahoro, washiduka wagiye no mu muhanda wasaze, kandi noneho ukanezeza babandi bakugiriye
      nabi. Ariko iyo wihaye amahoro nta n'umenya icyo utekereza, gusa urabyihorera ugatuza, ugategereza ubundi buzima buri imbere, ubu twe tuzi ibyashize ariko ntabwo tuzi ibiri imbere. Utegeza
      nyine ikiri imbere niba ari kiza se, cyangwa se niba ari kibi, nyine mu buzima ugategereza ibindi biri imbere yawe.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="34:27" stop="" player="">00 :34:27 Pothin Hari ikintu numva twavugaho cyane cyane ku buryo bw'umwihariko. Urabona wowe uri umuntu wanyuze mu buzima bukomeye, kandi waciye mu ibintu
      byinshi. Nonese ibyo aribyo byose ibyo waciyemo wabitewe no kubura ababyeyi n'ibyabayeho, ariko hari ubundi buzima wabayeho n'ubwo wenda wari umwana bwa mbere y'intambara. Waba wibuka, cyangwa
      watubwira uti: "jyewe numva mbere y'intambara nkurikije uko iwacu twari tumeze, byari bimeze gutya ? Waducira muri make ubuzima bw'iwanyu mbere y'intambara ?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="35:08" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Twebwe mbere y'intambara, twebwe twari abana batanu . Muri abo bana batanu ni jyewe wari uwanyuma . Kandi nta kibazo mu rugo twagiraga,
      kubera ko ari Mama, ari na Papa bose barakoraga. Nta kibazo twagiraga pe! Wenda n'iyo no hanze habaga n'ibibazo, twebwe nta kintu byabaga bitubwiye. Kubera ko twari dufite abaturebera. Ariko
      intambara yararangiye, kubera ko jyewe na mukuru wanjye, ni natwe twari abanyuma , abari badukuriye bose baragiye. Intambara rero irangiye…intambara irangiye, nibuze nta na famille [umuryango]
      nimwe igaragara, yaba yarasigaye, ku buryo twayibwira ikibazo. Famille [umuryango] na yitwa ngo yarasigaye, ni za familles [ya miryango] nazo ziriho zitabashije. Ubwo rero kugirango ubuzima
      wari urimo mbere, ubu comparer [ubugereranye] n'ubw'ubungubu, ubona harimo différence [butandukanye]. Kuko ubungubu nshobora kugira ikibazo, singire uwo nkibwira. Mbese ubu nshobora kumara
      n'iminsi ibiri ntari narya, ariko mbere y'intambara nta n'umunsi… nta n'isa… igihe cyose numvaga nkeneye kurya nararyaga. Ariko ubungubu nshobora no kumara n'iminsi itatu, kandi ngaceceka.
      Kubera ko mba nabuze uwo ntura ikibazo. Ubuzima bwa nyuma y'intambara, ni compliqué [buragoye] cyane . Nta n'icya kane, cya mbere y'intambara.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="36:55" stop="" player="">Pothin: Undi muntu numva ukomeye cyane muri iki gihe nyuma y'intambara, cyane cyane mu buzima bwawe, ni mukuru wawe. Nonese watubwira iki kuri mukuru wawe,
      angana iki ? ubona afite imigambi imeze gute ?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="37:11" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Ubundi mukuru wanjye nawe, ni umwana…si umwana cyane yavutse muri 1981. Ariko ubuzima bwe nawe ni hatari. Kuko aho yari ageze, yari kuba
      ari umuntu wenda nawe wagize icyo yimarira. Ariko kubera ko yabuze umuntu umusunika ngo yigire igihe, amashuri ye ayarangize. Ubuzima bwe bwabaye nkubusubira inyuma. Kubera ko we yabonye ko
      ansigaranye kandi ndi umwana kuri we, abura ikintu yankorera, ava mu ishuri, kugirango wenda mbone uko nakwiga. We yasubiye ku ishuri ari uko FARG [ikigega]ije. Kandi asubira ku ishuri ari uko
      FARG[ikigega] yemeye kuzajya idufasha buri kwezi. Ibyo byose bitari byaba FARG [ikigega] itaraza, we yemeye kumvunikira, kugirango mbe najya ejuru. Kugeza na n'ubu ntabwo amashuri ye
      arayarangiza, kandi intera ye ntabwo imwemereye kuba yaba akiga sécondaire [amashuri yisumbuye], ariko ubu ari muri cinquième sécondaire [muwa gatanu w'amashuri yisumbuye]. Kandi n'iyo ageze mu
      rugo, asanga ibibazo ari byinshi, wenda nkanjye yaba yarasize…waba warasigaye inyuma, nta kintu mumariye. Ndi gutya nanjye, nta kazi ngira nta ki…nta n'undi muntu wundi ngira umproteja
      [undwanaho] wenda ngo nanjye ngire ikintu naba namumarira. Ava ku ishuri nabwo, akaza agasubira muri bwa buzima bubi, yari arimo mbere.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="38:54" stop="" player="">Pothin: Nta butumwa waha nk'imfubyi za Jenoside? Cyane cyane ari imfubyi zirera, ari n'imfubyi zirerwa. Kuko…cyane cyane abana, abakiri batoya. Kuko
      biragaragara ko bagombye kugira uburyo bakwitwara.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="39:10" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Njyewe nk'inama nabaha, ni uko ubuzima bwose banyuzemo, n'ubwo bakirimo ubu, bashobora kubwitwaramo neza. Ikintu cyose babonye, n'icyo
      batabonye bakumva ko kibanyuze. Ntibagire irari. Kuko bagize irari byabaviramo n'ibindi bibi. Ariko banyuzwe n'uko bari, yaba bari muma familles [mu miryango] cyangwa se baba abirera… burya
      hariho n'ukuntu uba muri famille [mu muryango] aho kugirango ubeho neza, ahubwo ya famille [wa muryango] ikagutesa. Iyo utihanganye rero ngo ubane nabo, nibwo ujya kumva ukumva ngo umwana
      kanaka yararutse. Ugasanga muri kwa kuraruka kwe akuyemo conséquences [ingaruka] z'indwara, icyo namukonseya [inama namugira] ho ni uko ikintu cyose cyaba kiza, cyaba kibi imbere ye ashobora
      kugifata nk'ikiza. kugirango mu buzima bwe buri imbere, ubuzima bwe buzashobore gufonctiona [kugenda] neza.</gm:tm>
    </gm:itext>
    <gm:itext type="transcript" title="English Translation" player="video1">
      <gm:tm start="00:01" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: My name is Umulisa Marie-Claire. Before the war we were living in Kamonyi district in Gitarama province, in a sector called Murehe.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="01:15" stop="" player="">Umulisa M. Claire: When the war was about to start, I wasn't so informed about it but there was multipartism and I would see political parties having
      conflicts; MRND and MDR. That is what I was aware of. Habyarimana later on died. I remember we had a councillor called Iyakaremye Emmanuel. He came at home and asked my dad in which politial
      party he was. My dad replied that his political party was in his heart and that it wasn't necesary to tell it to him. A week later, some people from different neighbouring sectors came to our
      home sector. They had come to kill the Tutsis, and when they reached home, they took my dad away. They asked him to give them money. He had 30,000 FRW. So, he gave it to them and came back
      home. Two days later, it was on a Sunday and we had gone to church. When we came back, they came home and called my dad. All of us were in the compound and they told dad that they were going to
      kill all of us. They took all the cows that were at home and ate them but they never killed us as they had said. After about a week, the war broke up into the whole district.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="03:00" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: I remember they came home one morning. They knocked at the front door. My mother and all the kids who were at home skipped the fence and
      only dad remained there. There was a millet plantation behind home and we just hid there. We did not recognized any of the people who came home, we only managed to identify two of them. One was
      called Karamage and the other one was called Minani. They came and took dad to a nearby centre. They made him sit there and beat him. I heard that they did not kill him on that day. We spent
      about two days in the millet plantation. Then they came back at home, but dad was still alive; they hadn't killed him yet. A day later… we didn't know where dad was. In the millet plantation
      where we were, behind home… we were with mum and the rest of my brothers and sisters. We were five children. The boys left us. I remained there with mum and my older sister. In the evening we
      went to a certain hill in our village and hid in a cave. And the following evening we left and mum took us to our nieghbours. When we reached there mum asked them to hide me as I was the last
      born. They told my mum that they were not allowed to keep Inyenzi(cockroaches). We immediately went back to hide in a millet plantation. After about two days… mum suggested that we go to a
      church and hide there.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="05:18" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: When we reached the church… it was around 10 o'clock.. We entered in the church and spent about three days there. After three days they
      came to get us and led us towards the river. When we reached a certain center, we were stopped and they wanted to remain behind with mum and told us to go back. Both my sister and I refused to
      leave our mum behind. They started beating us and since we were young kids, we agreed and left mum there. We went to another neighbour's house. Both our families were friends, so my sister and
      I decided to go there and when we reached, we hid behind their home. As we were still hiding, we saw one girl and one boy members of that family and we called them. We thought they would be
      merciful and hide us in their home.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="06:17" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: So we called them and when they came they asked us, "How did our people [the Hutu] leave you?" They immediately took us [my sister and I]
      to some Interahamwe called Byemayire, who was a terrible killer. They took us there so that Byemayire would kill us. Fortunately, Byemayire wasn't around. They proceeded and took us to a nearby
      center, hoping to find there some other cruel Interahamwe so that they would kill us. When we reached there, two men were hesitant, "We cannot kill these two kids; their father was a very good
      man and he helped us out several times. Let them go and be killed elsewhere." Therefore, we left. But the boy called Minani and his sister Yansoneye followed us saying that they were going to
      show us to Interahamwe in order for them to kill us. When we reached a place called Musenyi, I failed to walk because I was very tired. Minani then hacked me on the leg and said that I should
      hurry.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="07:41" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Though I was hacked, I still continued to walk; I wasn't too weak to stop walking. As we were slopping down the hill, still with my
      sister's company, they called some people who were down at the river and told them that they had brought them some Inkotanyi, to get ready. Therefore, they continued to slop down with us and
      when we reached the river, my sister was forced to carry a tree trunk and they made me carry two huge stones, then they dumped us in the water. We spent two days in the water. We found… I found
      myself in the sugar cane plantations that were around and my sister came out from the other side of the river. The waters threw us in two different areas. That was after two days and I was in
      the sugar cane plantation but I didn't know where my sister was. I had last seen her when they were throwing us into the waters. I remained in the sugar cane plantation naked; I didn't… I came
      out of water without any cloth. Some of our relatives were in Runda; an old lady who was my mum's aunt. But I didn't know the place very well. They dumped us in the river from a place called
      Iraro and we came out at a certain place called Kamuhada, at a bridge that is between Kigali and Gitarama. Then when night fell, I went to some hill called Kagina. It was in the middle of the
      night, at around 1 o'clock in the morning.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="09:33" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Therefore, I walked and walked. It was almost morning, at around 4 o'clock in the morning that is when I reached that home. I went and
      knocked at their door. They hadn't seen me in a long time. They opened for me and I found my mum already there. And when she saw me, she was filled with sorrow. Then she asked me, "Where is
      your older sister?" I told her that by the time they drowned us, we were together but I don't know what happened to her later. So my mum and I stayed there and two days later, my older sister
      also came. My mum asked her how she came. She told her that she was coming from somewhere across the river, in a place called Nyagatovu. The three of us remained together. Actually, the man in
      that family was not being hunted. He was the one to hide us and his wife was an aunt to mum and she was also among the group of hunted people. Since her husband was a Hutu, he was not
      threatened. We all continued to hide there; my mum, my older sister and I. Later… it was in… it was still in April in the middle of the war. Then in May, the man [husband to her mum's aunt]
      said, "I do not want to be accused of being Inkotanyi. All of you go." He told his wife if she believed she had to continue hiding us, then she should leave with us.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="11:29" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: The following day in the morning we all [the three of us] left. We went to a certain place called Runda and then to a place called Gihinga.
      When we reached a certain roadblock, they stopped us. They asked mum to give them her identity card. But she didn't have one. Then they asked her; "Whose kids are those?" she told them we were
      not her kids, that we were just walking together. They made her sit on a pit. We refused to leave her. We stayed there waiting for them to kill us, but they didn't. After sometime, a group of
      Interahamwe came. When they reached there, one of them said to the rest, "I know this old lady, she is not a Tutsi." That's how we survived then and went on. I had a godmother in a certain
      place called Ruzege. Mum took me there, but when we got there, they said that they could not hide such a big number of people, that they would also be killed. But they allowed me to stay with
      them and asked mum and my sister to look for elsewhere to go. Therefore, they left and I stayed there. But we had other relatives in a place called Nyamiyaga in Musambira commune. When they
      reached there, they found they had all been killed. Mum immediately left for Kabgayi and my sister stayed there with other kids who were there and they hid together. After mum reached Kabgayi,
      we never got to know what happened to her; I wonder if she died or if she's still alive, but she most probably died. Since the war ended, we have never seen her. We don't even know even know
      how she was killed… neither where she died.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="13:51" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: My sister stayed there and I stayed at my godmother's place. Two days later… I think it was two days, my godmother came and told me, "I
      will not continue to hide you because they may kill me too." She went on to say, "You remember you came here with your sister and your mum and you know they left. It is better you follow them."
      I asked her how I was going to follow them yet I didn't know where they had passed. I told her I did not know which way to take. She told me it was none of her business. "Whether you die or
      survive it is your problem", she said. That is what she told me. In the morning… I remember I was sick; I had a terrible wound on the knee, I couldn't walk properly. In the morning, it was even
      raining, I left alone and sat on the road wondering what I was going to do. Then I advised myself to go to that place where we first hid when the war had just started. It was in Runda.
      Therefore I went back there. However the man was very motivated into genocide issues. Fortunately, his sons were good people. So they interceded on my behalf, "This is a very young kid, they
      will never ask her for identification papers. So why worry? Just keep her until the war is over." They went on to convice him, "The Interahamwe don't know her, in case they come, she will tell
      them that she is your granddaughter."</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="15:50" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: I stayed there without knowing where the others who were with me had gone. The war went on and at some point they began shooting. The
      Inkotanyi came to Runda while I was there. During the time of shootings, we all fled together. I thought of staying in the house alone and thought it would be hard. We again crossed over to a
      certain place… Runda was next to Taba and Taba was my home village. We passed there and went further. We reached a place called Kanyinya, where we found a roadblock. At the roadlock they would
      stop people and look into the palms of kids who were not yet able to get identity cards. When they looked into mine, they asked me, "Where do you come from?" I lied to them and gave them wrong
      names of my parents. Then they let me go. We continued our journey and reached Nyabikenke and Bulinga. We went through all those areas. When we reached Gisenyi, we turned back as it seemed like
      the war had calmed down.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="17:25" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: We went back to…to the place where I was during the war. Since I was alone, I went back to Ruda. The war had stopped then. I found when the
      old lady was still alive but the old man had died. We went to a camp in Ruyenzi and camped there. After some few days… I thought that maybe someone from home may come to that camp, but no one
      came. I just stayed there with those people. In August 1994… I remember we had gone to church, when I came back, I found my sister there. It was like a big miracle to me. Before greeting her, I
      first asked her; "Are you still alive?" She said, "I am alive." Then I asked her, "You didn't die? or am I just talking to a ghost." She said, "No, it is me, I am still alive." "Where were you
      living?" I asked her. Then she told me that she… she went to Musambira, where we had family members and continued to hide. Later she went to Zaire [Congo] and came back.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="18:56" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Therefore, we waited to see if mum or other people from home would come but none turned up. We neither know how people from home died nor
      where they died except dad who was killed at a certain center where they had taken him. That is where they killed him.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="19:17" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Then the war stopped. From August 1994 to January 1995 I continued to live there where I was when the war stopped. My sister and I
      continued to live there together. They somehow wanted to make us their slaves… the war begun when I was in primary four. Then they stopped me from going back to school. Though my sister wasn't
      so old, she was slightly wiser than me. Then she asked, "How shall we live this kind of life? They can't allow you to go to school; neither did they allow me… All they wanted us for was to
      collect grass for their cows, to dig, to fetch water, generally to do all the domestic work. That was what they expected from us and to them that was the reason why they were taking care of
      us.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="20:23" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: My sister left me there. The Burgomaster of our home area was a genocide survivor too. Therefore, my sister went to him and told him what
      was going on. Then he asked her, "What can I do for you? You are still young; you cannot live alone in a house. And even if you did, what would you survive on? You have no one left in your
      family that could maybe protect you in your life." Then my sister told him, "Instead of continuing to live the way we are living, we'd better live in a house alone. We don't care if it means
      dying." By then there were Interahamwe houses, which were empty; the Interahamwe had fled. He gave us a house. Then we started living in it. That was in 1995, I went back to school but my
      sister was confused about what to do. We both went to school at the same time for as short time. Later on in 1996, the burgomaster got her a job as a tax collector. So, when she started
      working, I was able to continue school. In year 1997, I started secondary school and my sister continued working until the year 2000. I was in secondary four when our mayor was changed. They
      brought another one who was not aware of our life conditions. They stopped all employees who did not have diplomas and my sister was among them. I was in secondary four when she left work.
      Fortunately, FARG was founded. Therefore they would pay for my school fees but as far as domestic needs were concerned, we got a lot of problems.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="22:39" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: We were not living in Kigali then. We were living in Gitarama at the farm. Our farm was well treated since my sister was working; she would
      employ people to work on it and we would live on its harvest. At first when she had just left work, havests from the farm continued to feed us. After some time, there was a new policy that was
      put forward; everyone had to give everything that did not belong to him or her. Therefore, we were asked to live the other house. When they took us out of that house, life became hard. It was
      as though life had stopped. But my sister tried to contact FARG and then FARG considered our problem. And they would give us 20,000 Frw per month.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="23:49" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Then in the year 2001, which is when we used to get the funding of FARG… my sister too… I was in secondary five. My sister realised that
      her life was also getting worse because she never had any documents [diplomas or certificates]. The war began when she was in secondary two. Then she told me, "You have reached in senior five
      and you can see that FARG is helping us; they provide us with school funds, transport and other school expenses. It is a high time I also went back to school." Immediately she started looking
      for a school and started studying as soon as she got one. FARG continued to help us until 2002 when they [FARG] gave us a house in the Kimironko residences, which were constructed for children
      who live on their own [orphans]. We started living in that house. Later FARG was decentralised and they stopped helping people. When they did… I had finished my studies before they stopped
      helping us. Then I got a temporary job in Ibuka. I worked and the money was helpful. My sister was actually able to get some of the school material she needed. Then the job stopped and life
      stopped too.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="25:38" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Now I cannot tell you how exactly life is, all I can say is life is really hard for us. When one has a problem, he or she tries to bear
      with it because there is no one to solve the problem for you. Today my older sister is in senior five. I was lucky to succeed and get a diploma. However life is currently very hard. Well, I
      cannot say that we are desperate; we always try to be serene and look for a living. Sometimes we meet good Samaritans who have pity on us or remember us and say, "I will help these kids in such
      and such a way." And when you don't get such people, life still goes on though in such a misarable way.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="26:34" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Mostly, the hardest part in life is how to find food. Because in life when you neither have where to get food from nor someone to help or
      care about you; someone to find out if you have any problem, you feel like life is far from treating you well.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="27:14" stop="" player="">Pothin: There are some questions we would like to ask you… First, you told us that you were thrown into the river; you and your sister, and later you came
      out of it. Is it because the waters didn't want to kill you…? Which river was it?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="27:36" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: It was river Nyabarongo. We were drowned my sister and I. We did not come out together. I came out from this side of Kamuhanda and she came
      out from across the river in a place called Nyagatovu. That is where she came out.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="27:57" stop="" player="">Pothin: Did she tell you how she crossed the river in order to go back to where you had come from… I mean where you all saw each other again?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="28:03" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Yes she told me. She walked up to the road that goes to Shyorongi and then continued up to the brigde that is between Runda and Taba. Then
      she went to the house of the old lady whom we were related; she was my mum's aunt.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="28:21" stop="" player="">Pothin: You talked about some Interahamwes who were imprisoned, like Minani, Yansoneye and others. Do you remember… or do you know what happened to them?
      Because, I believe it is Minani who cut your leg…</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="28:34" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Umh! After the war, we met the so called Minani… Well, when we came back, we went to see our farm in the village. We found Minani there.
      When he saw me, he was filled with fear. Then he said to me, "I know I betrayed you, I hacked you. And while doing so, I did not want you to live anymore. What can I do to make up for what I
      did to you?" I just told him, "There are laws that will punish you for the fact that you never wanted to see me alive again." We went to report him at the district and he was arrested. He later
      on died in jail. His sister too was arrested and she is still in prison. She is in Gitarama prison. But Minani died in prison.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="29:29" stop="" player="">Pothin: What about the other Interahamwe… you never know they may be the ones who killed your parents or your other relatives. Do you know anything about
      them?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="29:38" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: In the group of attackers who first attacked our home, the person we managed to identify was Karekezi. He is the one who took our father
      away. And since our father left, he has never come back. But I don't know if he is the one who killed him or his companions because they were very many. But he is the only one I knew in the
      whole group of attackers. He is called Karekezi. He is the only one whose name I knew.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="30:14" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: He is still alive. He was once arrested; Karakezi killed a lot of people. Even if you asked him, "How many people did you kill?" He would
      say he doesn't know. He was arrested some time and later they released him because he said the truth and admitted his crimes. Now he is at his home.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="30:34" stop="" player="">Pothin: Well according to what you have told me; it seems like all that happened was in the context of Gacaca. Tell me, when one admits their crime, does it
      mean they have also admitted that they killed people?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="30:44" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: I don't know about that. I don't know if he actually admits that he killed those people. But when you try asking him, he says, "I killed a
      lot of people and I cannot tell the exact number, all I know is that I killed so many people."</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="31:02" stop="" player="">Pothin: Did he come to apologise to you?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="31:04" stop="" player="">Umulisa M. Claire: No he's never come.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="31:06" stop="" player="">Pothin: Well, considering that, what do you think of the Gacaca court?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="31:13" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: What I think about Gacaca court… people who killed had a goal in doing so. Therefore, when someone comes to me asking for forgiveness
      because he killed people, my people… they killed intentionally with all their hearts… Therefore, the law should punish them according to their crimes.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="31:43" stop="" player="">Pothin: There is something that is often talked about, something concerning unity and reconciliation. To somebody like you who was hurt to that extent and
      who is still suffering the consequences of their deeds even today. Do you find it possible… or what is your point of view?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="32:08" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Personally, as someone who lost everyone and is now living miserably, I believe those who killed should be strongly punished in a way that
      would affect them. So that they also feel how wrong what they did is. Because I cannot say that… that they should kill them too. It's not my place to say so, it is the role of the law, and I
      don't have that right. But personally I would suggest they kill them. But as far as the law is concerned, they should be given punishments according to the crimes they committed.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="32:47" stop="" player="">Pothin: Well, when a person experiences some things the way you did and then lives the way you are living due to his or her past, he or she gains some life
      experience. Therefore, what does it mean to you as a genocide survivor? Could you explain about it?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="33:10" stop="" player="">Umulisa M. Claire: Explain about what?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="33:12" stop="" player="">Pothin: You may say that Genocide survivors are this or that way, they encounter such or such problems, and they feel this way… considering their living and
      all that is happening to them as they are trying to solve their problems.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="33:29" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: As a person who… someone like me who got several problems. The way I understand the genocide…there is a time you think about all the things
      you went through and try to compare it to the life you are leading now; then you come to realise that there is no difference between your past and your present. And when things are like that,
      you just try to ignore it all. Because if you cannot find a way to ignore it, you might end up on the streets, crazy. This would only contribute to making happy your enemies. But when you try
      to be still and not let even a single person know what you are thinking about. You just have to calm down and think about the future. We only know the past; we don't know the future. We can
      only wait for the future, if it happens to be good, fine; if not too bad. In life it is important to wait for what's ahead of us.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="34:27" stop="" player="">Pothin: There is something I would like us to talk about more specifically. You see you are a person who experienced tough times and you have seen a lot of
      things. However, all was as a result of the loss of your parents due to the war. Do you remember how things were before the war? Can u tell us about it? How were you living? Would you please
      tell us about your life at home before the war?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="35:08" stop="" player="">Umulisa M. Claire: Before the war, we were five children and I was the last-born. We never used to have problems at home because both mum and dad were
      working. For sure, we never had any problems. Sometimes there would be problems out there but it wouldn't mean anything to us because there used to be people to look after us. But after the
      war… my sister and I… yet we were the youngest; all our elders were gone. Even though the war stopped, not any family member was left. Maybe we could be telling them about our problems. Those
      who survived only are those who can neither support themselves. Therefore, if we compare this life with life before the war, there is a very big difference. Because nowadays I may be having a
      problem but I can't find anyone to tell it about. For example, I can spend two days without eating, yet before the war, I had never spent even a single day or an hour…every time I would feel
      like eating, I would eat. But now I can even spend three days and remain silent. Because there is no one I can share my problem with. Life after the war is very complicated. Mathematically, I
      would say it is not even a quarter of the life I was leading before the war.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="36:55" stop="" player="">Pothin: I noticed that the most special person in your life after the war is your sister. What can you tell us about your sister; how old is she and what are
      her plans?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="37:11" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: Although she is not too young, my sister is also young; she was born in 1981. But her life is also horrible. At this time she should have
      been able to do something with herself. But because she did not have anyone to push her so that she studies on time and complete her studies, her life seems to have declined instead. When she
      realised that it was just the two of us who survived and yet she was the oldest, she had no other alternative but to leave school so that I would go to school. She went back to school after
      FARG was founded; that is after FARG had agreed to help us monthly. But before FARG came, she had sacrificed herself so that I also get to some grade. Up to now, she hasn't completed her
      studies. Normally at her age, she is not supposed to be in secondary school but that is where she is now; she is in senior five at the moment. And whenever she comes back home [from boarding
      school], she finds several problems. And me who remained behind, she finds there is nothing I improved because I have no job, no one to protect me, so that I also can help her. She comes from
      school and goes back into the miserable life that she left behind.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="38:54" stop="" player="">Pothin: Is there any message you could give genocide orphans? Especially those that take care of themselves or even to those that are looked after. Those
      young kids should have a way they should behave…</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="39:10" stop="" player="">Umulisa M.Claire: The piece of advice I would give them is, "Never long for luxuries because they can turn out to be so dangerous." If they can appreciate
      who they are, be it those who are in families or those who are looking after themselves…It is possible to live in a family and yet live in torture. If you are not too patient to live with them,
      is when people start saying you are a spoiled child. And after misbehaving, she or he may suffer the consequences such as sicknesses. Therefore, all I can advise them is to look at everything
      before them positively; be it good or bad. It will all contribute in building a better future.</gm:tm>
    </gm:itext>
    <gm:itext type="transcript" title="Voir traduction française" player="video1">
      <gm:tm start="00:01" stop="" player="">Marie Claire: Je m'appelle Umulisa Marie-Claire, avant la guerre,nous habitions dans le secteur Kamonyi, commune Murehe, préfecture de Gitarama.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="01:14" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: Quand la guerre a commencé, j'étais petite, je ne comprenais pas grand chose sur ce sujet mais je me rappelle qu'il y a d'abord eu la période
      de multipartisme, des partis comme MDR et MRND étaient toujours en conflit. Après cette période, juste après la mort de Habyarimana, je me rappelle que nous avions un conseiller qui s'appelait
      Iyakaremye Emmanuel. Ce dernier est venu à la maison demander à mon père : - Tu es dans quel parti toi ? - Mon parti est dans mon cœur, ce n'est pas important que je te le dise, répondit mon
      père. Une semaine plus tard, des gens sont venus d'un autre secteur pour venir tuer les Tutsi dans le nôtre. Ils sont venus prendre mon père à la maison, ils sont partis avec lui mais après,
      ils lui ont demandé de l'argent. Papa a dû leur donner 30 000Frw pour qu'ils le laissent rentrer. Une autre fois encore, deux jours après cet événement, c'était un dimanche, on revenait de
      l'église, ils sont revenus, ils ont appelé mon père, nous étions tous dehors dans le jardin puis ils ont dit qu'ils allaient tous nous tuer…mais ce jour là, ils ont seulement emporté le bétail,
      ils l'ont mangé mais ils ne nous ont pas tués. Une semaine plus tard, la guerre était générale dans la toute la commune.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="03:00" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: Ils sont venus, c'était le matin, ils ont frappé au portail, ma mère et nous, les enfants, avons sauté par-dessus la clôture. Mon père est
      resté à la maison. Nous sommes tombés derrière la clôture, il y avait un champ de sorgho, nous nous sommes cachés dedans. Cependant, nous n'avons pu reconnaître tous que deux hommes parmi les
      envahisseurs: Karekezi et Minani. Ils ont emmené mon père puis quand ils sont arrivés à un petit centre, ils l'ont fait asseoir, l'ont battu mais ne l'ont pas tué ce jour là. Deux jours plus
      tard, nous étions toujours cachés dans les épis de maïs, papa était encore en vie, ils sont revenus à la maison, ils ont pillé tous les biens puis ont brûlé la maison. Le lendemain, nous ne
      savions toujours pas ce qu'était devenu papa, nous étions toujours dans ces champs de sorgho avec maman. Nous étions cinq enfants dans la famille. Les garçons sont partis, je suis restée avec
      ma mère et ma grande sœur…le soir, nous sommes allées sur une colline de chez nous, quand nous y sommes arrivées, nous nous sommes cachées dans une grotte puis la nuit venue, ma mère nous a
      emmenées dans une maison voisine pour leur demander de me cacher. J'étais la cadette de la famille, mais les voisins lui ont répondu qu'ils n'avaient pas le droit de cacher des Inkotanyi. Nous
      avons fait demi-tour, nous sommes donc retournées nous cacher dans les champs de maïs. Trois jours plus tard, maman nous a dit qu'il serait mieux de nous rendre à l'église.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="05:18" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: Nous sommes arrivées à l'église vers 10 heures. Trois jours plus tard, on est venu nous faire sortir de l'église pour aller nous noyer dans un
      cours d'eau…nous sommes parties, puis arrivées à un petit centre, ils ont arrêté maman et nous ont dit de continuer mais nous avons refusé de laisser maman. Ils nous ont frappées ma sœur et
      moi, nous n'étions que des enfants et c'est ainsi que nous avons accepté de partir en laissant maman. Nous sommes parties chez des voisins qui étaient des amis de la famille, quand nous sommes
      arrivées derrière leur maison, nous nous sommes cachées. Après, nous avons vu une fille avec son frère, ils étaient de cette famille voisine, nous les avons appelés croyant qu'ils auraient
      pitié et nous cacher chez eux.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="06:17" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: Nous les avons appelés, ils sont venus mais quand ils sont arrivés, ils se sont exclamés : « Mais comment nos frères [Hutu] ont-ils pu vous
      laisser ! » Ils nous ont attrapées, nous ont ensuite escortées jusque chez un Interahamwe qui tuait sans pitié, il s'appelait Byemayire. Quand nous sommes arrivés chez ce dernier, il n'était
      pas là. Ils nous ont encore fait descendre au petit centre à côté dans l'unique but de pouvoir rencontrer des Interahamwe pour qu'ils nous tuent. Quand nous sommes arrivés au centre, il y avait
      deux hommes mais ils ont dit : « Nous ne pouvons pas tuer ces enfants, leur père était un homme bien, il nous aidait beaucoup. Laissez-les partir, elles seront tuées ailleurs. » Ce garçon,
      Minani, et sa sœur Yansoneye, insistaient sur le fait que nous devions mourir. Ils nous ont encore emmenées à un endroit appelé ‘Ku Musenyi' mais à un certain moment je ne pouvais plus marcher,
      j'étais fatiguée. Ce Minani m'a coupé au pied avec sa machette en me disant de marcher plus vite.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="07:41" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: Après m'avoir découpé, je ne me suis plus arrêtée, j'ai continué la marche. Nous sommes descendus une colline puis il a crié aux gens qui se
      trouvaient en bas, au cours d'eau : « Nous emmenons des Inkotanyi, soyez donc prêts. » Quand nous sommes arrivées, ils ont fait porter un bois à ma sœur et à moi deux pierres ; ils nous ont
      ensuite jetées dans l'eau. Deux jours plus tard, en reprenant connaissance, l'eau m'avait jeté dans un champ de cannes à sucre. Ma sœur, elle, avait était éjectée sur l'autre rive. L'eau ne
      nous avait pas emmenées au même endroit. Après donc ces deux jours, j'étais dans ce champ de cannes à sucre, je ne savais pas où était ma sœur, je ne me rappelais plus que du moment avant qu'on
      soit jetée à l'eau. Quand je suis sorti de l'eau, j'étais nue, mes habits étaient…mais puisque j'avais de la famille à Runda, il y avait une vieille dame qui était la tante de ma mère sauf que
      je ne connaissais pas bien sa maison… Le fait est qu'on nous avait jetées dans l'eau au niveau de Iraro puis nous sommes sorties à Kamuhanda, juste au pont qui sépare Kigali de Gitarama.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="09:33" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: La nuit tombée, je suis montée sur la colline Kagina, il était vers 1heure du matin. Ce n'est que vers 4 heures, juste avant qu'il fasse jour,
      que je suis arrivée chez de la vieille dame. Quand je suis arrivée, ça faisait longtemps qu'on ne s'était pas vu, j'ai frappé puis on m'a ouvert, je suis entrée, à ma grande surprise, maman
      était là aussi. J'ai salué tout le monde. Dès qu'elle m'a vue, maman, émue de chagrin, m'a demandé où était ma grande sœur. Je lui ai dit qu'on nous avait jetées dans la rivière ensemble mais
      qu'après, je n'avais plus ce qu'elle était devenue. Nous sommes restées là ma mère et moi puis deux jours plus tard, ma grande sœur est arrivée. Nous lui avons demandé ce qui s'était passé,
      elle a dit qu'elle était sortie du cours d'eau au niveau de Nyagatovu. Nous sommes restées toutes les trois dans cette maison. Le mari de la dame n'était pas menacé d'être tué, c'est lui qui
      nous cachait. Sa femme était la tante de ma mère, elle était également recherchée. Mais elle n'était pas menacée parce qu'elle avait épousée un Hutu. Nous sommes restées cachées toutes les
      trois, c'était toujours en avril. Puis en mai, le mari de la dame a dit qu'il ne voulait plus risquer sa vie à cause des Inkotanyi, il nous a dit de partir. Il disait aussi que si sa femme
      croyait qu'il va continuer à nous cacher, elle pouvait partir aussi.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="11:29" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: Le lendemain matin, nous sommes toutes les trois parties. Nous avons marché jusqu'à Runda puis jusqu'à Gihinga mais quand nous sommes arrivées
      là, il y avait une barrière, alors on nous a arrêtées. Ils ont ensuite ordonné à maman : « Carte d'identité ! » Mais elle ne l'avait pas. Ils lui ont ensuite demandé : « Qui sont ces enfants ?
      » Elle a répondu : « Elles ne sont pas à moi, nous ne faisons que marcher ensembles. » Ils ont alors obligé maman de s'asseoir à côté d'un trou. Nous avons refusé de partir, nous sommes restées
      longtemps à attendre qu'on nous tue mais on ne nous tuait toujours pas. Un moment plus tard, les Interahamwe sont arrivés puis l'un d'eux a dit : « Je connais cette dame, elle n'est pas Tutsi.
      » C'est comme ça que nous avons survécu ce jour là. Puisque j'avais une marraine à Ruzege, maman a dit qu'il serait mieux qu'on y aille. Quand nous sommes arrivées chez ma marraine, ils ont dit
      qu'ils ne pouvaient pas nous garder tous de peur d'être également tués. Moi, je pouvais rester mais ma mère et ma grande sœur devaient aller chercher ailleurs. Je suis restée là mais elles sont
      parties à Nyamiyaga où nous avions de la famille, c'est dans la commune Musambira. Mais quand elles sont arrivées, toute la famille était morte. Ma mère est ensuite directement allée à Kabgayi,
      ma sœur est restée là à se cacher avec les autres enfants rescapés de cette famille. Quand maman est arrivée à Kabgayi, nous n'avons plus rien su d'elle. On ne sait même pas si elle est morte
      ou pas…mais elle est certainement morte parce que depuis lors on ne l'a plus revue, personne ne sait où et comment elle est morte.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="13:51" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: Ma grande sœur est restée avec ces enfants et moi avec ma marraine mais deux jours plus tard, elle m'a dit : - Je ne peux plus continuer à te
      garder avec moi, ils pourront venir me tuer aussi. Souviens-toi que tu es venue ici avec ta mère et ta sœur. Elles sont parties et je crois que le mieux que tu peux faire est de les suivre ! -
      Mais je ne sais quel chemin elles ont emprunté…lui dis-je. - Je me fiche de tout ça ! que tu vives ou que tu meurs, je ne sais pas… Le lendemain matin, je ne pouvais pas bien marcher à cause de
      la plaie au genou due au coup de machette que j'avais reçu. Le matin, il pleuvait, je suis partie, toute seule je me suis ensuite demandée où j'allais. Je ne savais pas où se trouvait ma mère,
      ma sœur non plus, mes frères n'en parlons pas puisque la dernière fois que je les avais vus, c'était lorsqu'on sortait de la maison. Je me suis décidée à repartir à Runda où nous étions quand
      la guerre avait commencé. Quand j'y suis arrivée, le vieux ne voulait aucune implication dans le Génocide mais ses enfants étaient gentils. Ils lui ont dit : « C'est une petite fille, personne
      ne lui demandera la carte d'identité. C'est quoi ton problème ? Garde-la jusqu'à ce que la guerre finisse et si jamais les Interahamwe venaient, dis-leur que c'est ta petite fille. »</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="15:50" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: Je suis restée là mais je ne savais pas où étaient passés ceux avec qui j'étais. La guerre a continué puis vers le mois de juin, les balles
      crépitaient dans tous les sens, les Inkotanyi étaient à Runda. Tout le monde a fui, je ne pouvais pas rester dans la maison toute seule. Nous avons fui, nous sommes passés par Taba, chez nous,
      c'était juste en face de Runda, nous avons continué, puis arrivés à Kanyinya, il y avait une barrière. A la barrière, les gens qui l'avaient montée scrutaient nos mains puis quand mon tour est
      arrivé, ils m'ont demandé : « Tu es d'où ? » Je leur ai menti, je leur ai dit de faux noms de parents, ils m'ont laissée partir. Nous avons continué jusqu'à Nyabikenke, jusqu'à Bulinga, nous
      avons contourné partout puis quand nous sommes arrivés à Gisenyi, nous sommes revenus. La guerre semblait se calmer.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="00:00" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: Nous sommes retournés… je suis retournée à Runda, où la guerre m'avait trouvé. J'étais seule, et je suis donc retournée à Runda, la guerre
      semblait être terminée. La vieille dame [la tante de maman] était en vie mais le vieil homme était mort. Nous sommes allés camper à Ruyenzi. Chaque jour, j'espérais voir quelqu'un de la famille
      venir mais personne ne venait. J'étais là avec ces gens là. En août 1994, nous étions allés à la messe, quand nous sommes revenus, ma sœur était là, c'était un vrai miracle ! Avant de la
      saluer, je lui ai demandé : - C'est toi ? Tu es en vie ? - C'est moi ! - Non ! Ou suis-je entrain de saluer un esprit ? - C'est moi, ne t'inquiète pas ! - Tu étais où durant tout ce temps ? -
      J'étais à Musambira, je me cachais avec les enfants de la famille élargie qui avaient survécu. Ensuite nous sommes allés au Zaïre [Congo actue] puis nous sommes revenues.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="18:56" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: Nous sommes restées à attendre la venue de maman ou de quelqu'un d'autre de la famille mais personne ne venait. Jusqu'à présent, nous ne savons
      pas où et comment les gens de la famille sont morts, à part mon père qui a été tué à un petit centre où il avait été emmené.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="19:17" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: A la fin de la guerre, d'août 1994 en janvier 1995, je suis restée là, à cet endroit où j'avais survécu. J'étais toujours avec ma sœur puis il
      est arrivé un moment où on nous avait ‘colonisées' là où on n'était. On ne voulait plus qu'on reparte à l'école. Au fait quand la guerre a éclaté, j'étais en 4ème primaire. Ma sœur, elle
      n'était pas trop grande mais assez intelligente. Elle m'a dit : « Jusqu'à quand allons-nous continuer à mener cette vie? » Ces gens voulaient en fait qu'on prenne soin de leurs vaches, qu'on
      fasse la vaisselle, bref qu'on soit comme des filles de ménage, qu'on travaille pour eux…que ce soit donc ça notre éducation.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="20:23" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: Ma sœur est allée voir un bourgmestre, rescapé aussi, pour le mettre au courant de la situation que nous vivions. Le bourgmestre lui a répondu
      : « Mais qu'est-ce que tu veux que je fasse pour vous, vous êtes des enfants, vous ne pouvez pas prendre votre propre maison et vivre seules, comment trouverez-vous à manger ? Vous n'avez
      personne pour veiller sur vous… » Mais ma sœur lui a dit qu'au lieu de continuer à mener le genre de vie que nous menions, vivre seules était préférable, tant pis pour le reste. Il y avait des
      maisons appartenant aux Interahamwe, ces derniers étaient en exil, le bourgmestre nous en a donné une, nous avons vécu dedans, j'ai repris l'école. C'était en 1995, mais ma sœur…elle avait
      trouvé qu'il était impossible qu'on aille à l'école toutes les deux. En 1996, le bourgmestre lui a alors proposé le poste de percepteur, elle a commencé à travailler, ça m'a facilité la
      poursuite de mes études. En 1997, je commençais l'école secondaire. Ma sœur travaillait toujours, puis en 2000, j'étais en 4ème secondaire, le maire, l'ancien bourgmestre, a été destitué. Un
      autre l'a remplacé mais ce dernier ne nous connaissait pas, il ne savait donc pas quel genre de vie nous menions. Il a donné l'ordre de chasser du travail toute personne ne possédant pas de
      diplôme d'études secondaires. Ma sœur a été chassée du travail de ce fait. J'ai eu la chance que le FARG [Fond d'Assistance aux Rescapés du Génocide] venait d'être créé, il me payait les études
      mais la vie à la maison était difficile.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="22:39" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: Ce temps là, nous n'habitions pas encore à Kigali mais à Gitarama, au bercail. Quand ma sœur travaillait encore, elle engageait des gens pour
      cultiver notre champ, elle était encore bien. Quand elle ne travaillait plus, nous vivions des produits de notre champ. Quelques jours plus tard, un ordre stipulant que toute personne devait
      rendre ce qui ne lui appartenait pas est sorti. On nous a sorti de la maison, la vie est devenue plus compliquée. A cet instant, nous avions l'impression que la terre avait cessé de tourner. Ma
      sœur a essayé d'approcher le FARG, le FARG a compris la lourdeur de notre problème, puis il a accepté de nous aider avec 20 000Frw chaque mois.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="23:49" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: En 2001, on venait juste de recevoir l'argent venant de FARG, j'étais en 5ème secondaire…ma sœur commençait à se rendre compte du fait que sa
      vie se détériorait de plus en plus. Quand la guerre a commencé, elle était en 2ème secondaire, elle s'est décidée à chercher un moyen pour rentrer à l'école, vu la façon dont le FARG nous
      aidait. Elle s'est cherché une école, le FARG l'a aidé puis en 2002, il nous a trouvé une maison d'orphelins dans l'habitat regroupé de Kimironko. Après que nous avons eu cette maison, le FARG
      a été décentralisé, les aides ont stoppé. Entre temps, j'avais terminé mes études secondaires…récemment, j'ai eu un emploi temporaire à IBUKA, je l'ai fait, l'argent nous a aidées, ma sœur en a
      profité pour aller à l'école. Mais après un temps, le job s'est arrêté, la vie aussi.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="25:38" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: Je ne sais comment te décrire la vie qu'on mène, elle est dure c'est tout. Quand tu as un problème, tu le gardes pour toi-même puisque tu ne
      peux le dire à personne. Ma grande sœur est en 5ème aujourd'hui, moi j'ai eu la chance d'obtenir mon diplôme…mais notre vie est vraiment difficile. Mais je ne désespère pas sauf que pour que la
      vie continue, il faudra que quelqu'un ait pitié de toi et dise : « Cette enfant est en difficulté, je vais l'aider de telle ou telle manière .» Et quand tu ne trouves pas de bon samaritain….la
      misère continue.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="26:34" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: La vie est surtout misérable dans ce temps parce que quand tu n'as pas de source de revenue, personne pour t'assister, personne pour te
      demander ce qui ne va pas…tu as toujours le sentiment que la vie est loin d'être belle.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="27:14" stop="" player="">Pothin: J'ai quelques petites questions à te poser. Je commencerai par te demander, tu nous as dit qu'on a essayé de vous noyer ta sœur et toi mais que le
      cours d'eau ne voulait pas de vous. De quel cours d'eau s'agit-il ?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="27:36" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: C'est Nyabarongo. On nous a noyées ensembles mais nous n'avons pas été éjectées au même endroit. Moi je suis sorti au niveau de Kamuhanda mais
      elle, elle est sortie au fond à Nyagatovu.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="27:57" stop="" player="">Pothin: Ta grande sœur t'a t-elle raconté son parcours jusqu'à l'endroit où vous vous êtes revue ?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="28:03" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: Oui, elle avait continué toute la route menant à Shyorongi puis est revenue sur le pont qui sépare Runda de Taba. Elle est ensuite venue chez
      la vieille dame, la tante de maman.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="28:21" stop="" player="">Pothin: Aurais-tu une idée sur ce que sont devenus des Interahamwe comme Yansoneye, Minani et les autres, surtout que ce dernier t'a frappé au pied avec sa
      machette. Sont-ils en prison ?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="28:34" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: Juste après la guerre, nous sommes allés au bercail voir comment l'état de notre parcelle. Quand nous y sommes arrivées, Minani était là. En me
      voyant, il est mort de peur puis il m'a dit : « Je sais que je t'ai offensée, en te découpant, je ne voulais pas que tu survives…que souhaites-tu que je fasse pour toi ? » Je lui ai répondu : «
      Puisque tu ne voulais que je vive, il y a des lois pour te punir. » Nous sommes allées l'accuser au secteur. On l'a mis en prison avec sa sœur, elle est toujours emprisonnée mais Minani, lui,
      est mort en prison.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="29:29" stop="" player="">Pothin: Et les Interahamwe qui ont peut-être tué tes parents ou même tes frères, que sais-tu d'eux ?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="29:37" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: La première personne que nous avons pu identifier lorsque le premier groupe d'assaut est venu à la maison, c'est Karekezi. C'est lui qui a pris
      mon père avec lui, il l'a emmené et depuis lors papa n'est plus revenu. Je ne sais pas si c'est lui qui l'a tué ou si ce sont les autres puisqu'ils étaient nombreux…sauf que c'est lui, ce
      Karekezi, que j'ai pu reconnaître.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="30:12" stop="" player="">Pothin: Est-il en vie ou bien….</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="30:14" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: Il est en vie. Il est en prison. Ce Karekezi a tué beaucoup de gens au point où lorsque quelqu'un lui demande combien de personnes il a tué, il
      te dit qu'il n'en connaît pas le nombre exact. On l'a remis en liberté parce qu'il a admis ses crimes. Il est chez lui.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="30:34" stop="" player="">Pothin: A mon constat, cela s'est passé dans une juridiction Gacaca ! S'il a admis le crime, a t-il accepté qu'il a tué ces gens ?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="30:44" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: Ça je n'en sais rien. Tout ce que je sais c'est que quand on lui demande le nombre de personnes qu'il a tué, il répond : « Je ne sais pas mais
      j'ai tué beaucoup de gens, beaucoup ! »</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="31:02" stop="" player="">Pothin: Est-il venu te demander pardon ?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="31:04" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: Non, jamais.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="31:06" stop="" player="">Pothin: En te basant sur ce que tu viens de dire, que penses-tu de Gacaca ?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="31:13" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: Ce que je pense de Gacaca c'est que…ces gens ont tué exprès. Dire que quelqu'un vient me demander pardon parce qu'il a tué les miens, je crois
      qu'il les a tués délibérément de plein gré…il faudrait donc que la justice lui inflige une punition relative à l'intensité du crime commis.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="31:43" stop="" player="">Pothin: Aujourd'hui on parle d'unité et de réconciliation. Personnellement en tant que personne qui a été touché par les événements passés et qui en souffre
      les conséquences jusqu'à présent, est-ce que tu crois que cette réconciliation peut se faire ? Qu'en penses-tu ?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="23:08" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: Personnellement, j'ai perdu des gens, aujourd'hui je suis abandonnée…je souhaiterais donc que la personne qui me les a enlevés soit punie pour
      qu'elle se rende compte du mal qu'elle a fait. Et puis je ne dirais pas que ce criminel soit tué, je ne suis pas bien placé pour le dire même si c'est mon souhait sauf qu'il y a des lois pour
      ça, la loi doit lui infliger une peine relative à l'intensité de son crime.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="32:47" stop="" player="">Pothin: Quand quelqu'un a traversé des moments aussi pénibles que ceux que tu as vécu et continue à mener une existence difficile, cette personne a quelque
      chose en particulier. Etre rescapé a quel sens à tes yeux ? Comment l'expliques-tu ?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="33:10" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: L'expliquer ?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="33:12" stop="" player="">Pothin: Expliquer qu'un rescapé mène tel genre de vie, il a tels problèmes, il se sent de telle façon ; en te référant sur la vie actuelle et tout ce qui se
      passe, comment tel ou tel problème est-il entrain d'être résolu…</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="33:29" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: En tant que personne qui a vécu le Génocide, il arrive que je compare le présent au passé mais je me rends bien compte que je ne viens de nulle
      part et je ne vais nulle part non plus. Quand tu comprends ainsi la chose, tu te donnes la paix du cœur parce qu'autrement, tu peux devenir fou, chose qui ferait plaisir à ceux qui ont tué tes
      proches. Mais quand tu te calmes, personne ne sait à quoi tu penses. Tu attends simplement ce que l'avenir te réserve parce que nous connaissons le passé mais pas le futur. Tu attends ce que te
      réserve le futur, si ce sont de bonnes choses, tant mieux, sinon, tant pis. Dans la vie, il faut toujours attendre ce qui vient devant.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="34:27" stop="" player="">Pothin: Je voudrais insister sur une chose. Tu es passée par plusieurs sortes de vies, tu as vécu une vie difficile, surtout parce que tu as perdu tes
      parents. Je voudrais alors te demander si tu te souviens de la vie que tu menais avant la guerre, dans ton enfance. Parles-nous en brièvement.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="35:08" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: Avant la guerre nous étions 5 enfants à la maison et j'étais la cadette. Nous étions bien puisque nos deux parents avaient du travail et même
      quand la situation n'était pas bien à l'extérieur, nous n'avions aucun problème. Car il y avait des gens qui veillaient sur nous. Mais après la guerre, je me suis retrouvée seule avec ma grande
      sœur, nous étions d'ailleurs les cadettes de la famille, tous les autres n'étaient plus là. Après la guerre, il n'y avait personne, pas de famille élargie à laquelle on pouvait confier nos
      problèmes, ceux qui étaient là ne s'auto suffisaient pas non plus. Comparer la vie d'avant à celle d'aujourd'hui, il y a une très grande différence parce qu'aujourd'hui je peux avoir un
      problème et le garder pour moi-même. Par exemple, je peux faire deux jours sans manger mais avant je mangeais quand je voulais, à chaque fois que j'en avais envie. Aujourd'hui, je peux même
      passer trois jours sans manger parce que je n'ai personne à qui le dire. La vie de l'après-guerre est compliquée, elle n'atteint même pas le quart du niveau de celle de l'avant la guerre.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="36:55" stop="" player="">Pothin: Ta sœur doit mener une vie aussi difficile que la tienne ; parle-nous d'elle, quel âge a t-elle ? Quels sont ses projets ?</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="37:11" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: Ma grande sœur n'est pas très âgée, elle est née en 1981 mais sa vie est vraiment…à son âge, elle devrait être en mesure de se débattre mais le
      fait qu'elle n'ait eu personne pour la soutenir pour qu'elle étudie à temps. C'est comme si sa vie avait fait un bond en arrière puisqu'elle a vu que nous n'étions que deux et que j'étais la
      plus petite, elle m'a donc laissé la priorité d'aller à l'école. Elle est retournée à l'école que lorsque le FARG a accepté de nous assister chaque mois avec un peu d'argent. Mais avant que le
      FARG ne soit là, elle se sacrifiait pour que je progresse. Actuellement elle est encore en 5ème secondaire alors qu'en principe, elle devrait avoir déjà terminé si on considère son âge. Quand
      elle rentre en vacance, à la maison, les difficultés sont les mêmes. Moi, qu'elle avait laissé à la maison, je suis restée sans rien faire, sans emploi…je n'ai personne pour me soutenir pour
      pouvoir l'aider…quand elle rentre de l'école, elle revient vivre dans la misère.</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="38:54" stop="" player="">Pothin: As-tu un message particulier pour les orphelins qui vivent sans tuteurs ? Ou même qui sont sous une tutelle quelconque ? C'est sûr que ces orphelins
      doivent avoir une façon de se conduire…</gm:tm>
      <gm:tm start="39:10" stop="" player="">Marie-Claire: Ce que je peux leur dire c'est que, la vie qu'ils ont traversée et celle qu'ils endurent aujourd'hui…ils doivent bien se comporter et rendre
      grâce pour tous ceux qu'ils arrivent à obtenir. Qu'ils ne se laissent pas envahir par la convoitise parce que sinon il peut en découler de très mauvaises choses ! Ils doivent donc être
      satisfaits d'être qui ils sont, qu'ils soient dans une famille ou seuls…au fait il arrive que tu sois dans une famille mais que cette dernière te maltraite au lieu d'être dans de bonnes
      conditions. Quand quelqu'un n'arrive pas à endurer tout ça, c'est alors que tu entends dire que l'enfant de tel a complètement changé de mœurs, et les conséquences de ces changements sont
      souvent des maladies. Le conseil que je peux lui donner est de tout considérer de façon positive, que ce soit une bonne ou une mauvaise chose, tout ça en vue de préparer un meilleur
      avenir.</gm:tm>
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<h3><span class="mw-headline" id="Continues_with_Part_2_of_the_Oral_Testimony_of_UMULISA_Marie_Claire.">Continues with <a href="index.php/Kmc00063/kmc00063_vid2.mp4" title="Kmc00063/kmc00063 vid2.mp4">Part 2 of the Oral Testimony of UMULISA Marie Claire</a>.</span></h3>
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Introduction
Famous and infamous people
- Habyarimana Juvenule
Government and Political Life
- Death of Habyarimana
Political Parties and Movement
- Death Threats
Hiding
- (In Sorghum)
Destruction Of Property
Survival At The Roadblock
Gunshots
- Flight Through Kanyinya
  - Back to Runda
Liberation And Post Liberation Life
- Camping At Runyenzi
- Re-appearance Of My Brother
- Back To School
  - FARG
Survival For Life
Psychological, Emotional and Cognitive Experience
- Postwar Reflection upon Gacaca
  - Reflection upon Unity And Reconciliation
Life As A Genocide Survivor
Advise To Orphans

Table Of Contents

Introduction
Pre-Genocide Experience
- Political Parties
Genocide Experience
- Abduction Of My Father
- Death Threats
- Flight
  - (To Church)
- Drowned In River
- Our Survival
- Fate Of My Mother
Post Genocide Experience
- Camping Site
- Ability To Go back To school
- Hardships In Life
- Reflection On Gacaca
- Reflection On Unity And Reconciliation
- Reflection On Genocide

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UMULISA Marie Claire
Habyarimana
Iyakaremye Emmanuel
Karekezi
Minani
Byemayire
Yansoneye

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Kamonyi
Gitarama
Murehe
Musenyi
Runda
Iraro
Kamuhanda
Kigali
Nyagatovu
gihinga
Ruzege
Nyamiyaga
Musambira
Kabwayi
Tabo
Kanyinya
Nyabikenke
Buringa
Gisenyi
Ruyenzi
Zaire
Kimironko
Shyorongi

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Ubuhamya Bwanditse

Umulisa M.Claire: Jyewe banyita Umulisa Marie Claire , Nkaba...mbere y'intambara twari dutuye mu Karere ka Kamonyi, Précture Gitarama, Umurenge wa...wa Murehe.
Umulisa M.Claire: Intambara ijya kuba, usibye ko jye ntari mbisobanukiwe cyane, nari nkiri mu…nari nkiri umwana. Habanje ibintu by'amashyaka. Amashyaka akazajya ashyamirana MRND na MDR cyane nibyo…nibyo nari nkunze kumenya. Nyuma y'amashyaka Habyalimana amaze gupfa, ndibika yuko twari dufite umu Conseiller witwa Iyakaremye Emmanuel, yaje mu rugo abwira Papa ngo: we ari mu rihe shyaka? Papa aramubwira ngo: ishyaka rye riri ku mutima ntabwo ari ngombwa kubimubwira. Hashize nk'icyumweru mu…muri Secteur y'iwacu haza aba…abantu bavuye mu yindi secteur, baje ngo kwica abantu b'abatutsi. Bageze mu rugo Papa baramutwara, bamaze kumutwara baramubwira ngo nabahe amafranga. Icyo gihe Papa yamuhaye ibihumbi mirongo itatu [30.000 frw], arongera aragarauka. Hashize iminsi nk'ibiri, icyo gihe hari ku cyumweru, twagiye gusenga, tuvuye gusenga papa ara…baraza bageze mu rugo bahamagara Papa, twese tujya ku muharuro baramubwira ngo: twese bagiye kutwica. Ubwo batwara inka zari ziri mu rugo baragenda barazirya, ariko icyo gihe ntabwo batwishe. Hashize iminsi nk'i… hashize icyumweru inta…ubwo… noneho intambara iba ibaye ku Karere kose.
Umulisa M.Claire": Ubwo baraje, bamaze kuza, icyo gihe hari mu gitondo, bakomanga ku rugi rwo ku irembo, ubwo abana twari turi mu rugo twahise dusimbuka urugo na Mama, ariko Papa we aguma mu rugo. Turagenda, inyuma y'iwacu hari hari amasaka, turagenda tuyihishamo. Abo bantu baraje ariko ntabwo twabashije kubamenya bose, twabashije kumenyamo abagabo babiri. Umwe yitwaga Karekezi undi yitwaga Minani. Baraza batwara Papa, bamujyana haruguru ‘ku gacenter' kari gahari, baramwicaza ngo: baramukubita. Ariko ntabwo bahise bamwica. Hashize iminsi nk'ibiri tukiri muri ya masaka, ubwo baragarutse ariko Papa yari ikiriho bari bataramwica. Ubwo baraza barasambura inzu, bakuramo n'ibintu byose, n'urugo bararutwika. Hashize umunsi umwe, ubwongubwo…Papa nyine ntabwo twari tuzi irengero rye, ya masaka twari turimo inyuma y'urugo, turi kumwe na mama n'abana bose, mu rugo twari abana batanu. Ubwongubwo ab'abahungu bahise baducika baragenda, nsigara ari jyewe na Maman na Mukuru wanjye. Bigejeje nimugoroba turagenda ahantu ku musozi w'iwacu, tugeze…tuhageze ku musozi twihisha ahantu mu mwo…ku mukokwe. Ubwongubwo bigejeje nka nimugoroba turagenda, mama aratujyana mu rugo twari duturanye, tuhageze Mama arababwira ngo: jyewe nibampishe [kuko ari jyewe wari mutoya mu bana b'iwacu]. Ubwo mama baramubwira ngo: "ntabwo bemerewe ngo kubika Inkotanyi." Ubwo twahise dusubira nanone inyuma, turagenda, turongera tujya ahantu mu masaka turihisha. Ubwo hashize iminsi nk'ibiri, mama aravuga ati: "noneho mureke tugende nanone tujye ahantu ku kiliziya abe ari mo tujya.
Umulisa M.Claire: Tugeze ku kiliziya…icyo gihe twageze ku kiliziya nka saa yine. Tuhageze tujya mu kiliziya mo imbere tumaramo iminsi itatu, hashize iminsi itatu baraza badukuramo bagiye kutujyana mu ruzi. Hashize…ubwo turagenda tugeze ku gacenter, mama baramugumana, twebwe baratubwira ngo: nitugende. Twanga gusiga Mama, jyewe na mukuru wanjye, baradukubita. Badukubise kubera ko twari abana, turemera Mama turamusiga turagenda. Tujya ahantu twari duturanye na none ku rugo, urwo rugo kubera ko bari inshuti z'iwacu, jyewe na Mukuru wanjye turagenda, tugeze inyuma yaho, ubwongubwo twihisha munsi y'urugo, tubona umukobwa wo muri urwo rugo n'umuhungu musaza we, turabahamagara tugirango wenda baratugirira impuhwe batujyane mu rugo baduhishe.
Umulisa M.Claire: Ubwo twarabahamagaye, bamaze kuza baratubwira, ngo: "bene wacu babasize muri he?" Ubwo bahise badufata jyewe na mukuru wanjye, batujyana ku Nterahamwe yicaga abantu cyane yitwaga Byemayire, batugejejeyo ngo Byemayire atwice, dusanga Byemayire ntawe uhari. Baradukomezanyije batujyana ahantu ku ‘gacentere' kari gahari, ngo wenda twahasanga izindi Nterahamwe gakushwa, kugirango wenda zibe zatwica. Turagenda tuhasanga abagabo babiri, bamaze kutubona, baratubwira bati: "aba bana ntabwo twabica, papa wabo yari umuntu mwiza yatugiriraga neza, nimubareke bazagwe ahandi." Turamanuka…ariko wa muhungu bamwitaga Minani, na mushiki we bamwita Yansoneye, bo barakomeje baratujyana. Baragenda ngo bagiye kutwereka Interahamwe ngo zitwice, baragenda batugejeje ahantu bita ku musenyi, jyewe nanirwa kugenda, kubera ko nari ndushye. Uwo bitaga Minani yarantemye, antema ku kaguru, ngo nihute.
Umulisa M.Claire: Bamaze kuntema ariko turagenda, ntabwo nahise ncika intege kugirango, wenda ku buryo ntabashije ubugenda, narakomeje ndagenda. Turagenda tumanuka umusozi jyewe na mukuru wanjye, tugeze haruguru ku musozi bahamagara abo hasi ku ruzi ngo: "tubazaniye Inkotanyi, ngo: nimwitegure." Barakomeza baratumanukana, batugejeje ku ruzi, bafata mukuru wanjye bamuhekesha igiti, bampekesha amabuye abiri, batujugunya mu ruzi. Ubwo mu ruzi twamazemo iminsi ibiri, tugiye kubona… ….jyewe mvamo ngwa mu bisheke, mukuru wanjye agwa hakurya y'uruzi, ntabwo twagu… …ntabwo uruzi rwatujugunyiye ahantu hamwe. Ubwo hashize iminsi nk'ibiri jye nari ndi mu bisheke, ariko mukuru wanjye sinari nzi aho ari, naherukaga bagiye kuduta mu ruzi. Ubwo nagumye mu bisheke nambaye ubusa, imyenda yose nari nambaye ntayi…ntaa… navuyemo nta mwenda ngifite. Ubwo kubera ko hari famille twari dufite ahantu bitaga muri Runda, hari umukecuru wari nyirasenge wa Mama. Ariko nkaba ntari mpazi neza. Ubwo baduta mu ruzi…baduta mu ruzi, badutereye ahantu bita ku Iraro, twiburukiye ahangaha hafi ya Kamuhanda, ku kiraro kigabanya Kigali na Gitarama .Ubwo bumaze kwira nazamutse ahantu bita ku musozi wa Kagina, ndagenda ari ninjoro, nka saa saba z'ijoro.
Umulisa M.Claire: Ndagenda, ndakomeza ndazamuka… …ndazamuka, bujya nko gucya nka saa…nka saa kumi, urwo rugo nirwo na…niho nahageze. Ndagenda ndakomanga, maze gukomanga kubera yuko nahaherukaga kera… barankingurira, mpageze nsanga mama yagezeyo. Ndabasuhuza, Mama akimbona agahinda karamwica, arambaza ngo: "mukuru wanjye ari he?" Mubwira yuko bagiye kuturoha mu ruzi twari kumwe, ariko we sinzi irengero rye. Ubwo turahaguma jye na Mama hashize iminsi nk'ibiri, ngiye kubona mbona mukuru wanjye nawe araje Turamubaza: "ese wowe waje ute?" aramubwira ngo: "avuye ahantu hakurya y'uruzi, ahantu bita i Nyagatovu." Ubwo turagumana uko turi batatu. Ariko umugabo wo muri urwo rugo, we ntabwo yahigwaga kuburyo bamwica, niwe wari waduhishe. Ariko umudamu we, yari Nyirasenge wa mama, nawe mubicwa yabaga arimo. Ariko kuko yari yarashatse umugabo w'umuhutu, we nta kintu bamurebagaho. Turakomeza turahihisha turi batatu, jyewe na mama na mukuru wanjye. Hashize icyo gihe hari mu kwaa… intambara mbese yari igeze hagati, ariko bikiri mu kwa kane. Bigejeje mu kwa gatanu, uwo mugabo aravuga ngo: ntabwo agiye kuzazira Inkotanyi, ngo: twese tugende, ngo niba uwo mukecuru, uwo twari dufitanye rélation [isano] ngo niba yumva ko yakomeza akaduhisha, ngo nawe tujyane.
Umulisa M.Claire: Ubwo bwarakeye mu gitondo, twese turagenda, jyewe na mama na mukuru wanjye. Tumanuka ahantu bita i Runda, tugera ahantu bita i Gihinga, tuhageze tugera kuri bariyeri [barrière] baradutangira. Bamaze kudutangira, turahagarara, mama baramubwira, ngo: "nazane ibyangombwa," arabibura. Baramubwira ngo: "abo bana se ngo: ni abande?" Mama aravuga: " si abanjye. Ngo: ni abo tugendana gusa." Mama bamwicaje ku cyobo, natwe twanga kugenda. Ubwo tuguma ahongaho dutegereza yuko batwica turabibura. Ubwo hashize akanya Interahamwe ziraza, zimaze kuza, havamo umugabo umwe aravuga, ngo: "uyu mukecuru ngo aramuzi, ngo ntabwo ari umututsi." Ubwo ahongaho twaraharokotse turagenda. Kubera ko nari mfite marene [marraine] ahantu bita mu Ruzege. Mama anjyanayo ngo anjyane ahongaho kwa marene [marraine] .Twaragiye tugeze kwa marraine, baravuga ngo: "ntabwo babika abantu bose ngo batabica, ngo jyewe barangumana, mama na mukuru wanjye bagende." Njyewe narahagumye, mama na mukuru wanjye baragenda. Baragenda njyewe nguma ahongaho, baragenda kuko twari dufite na none famille ahantu bita i Nyamiyaga, muri Komine Musambira. Bagezeyo basanga nabo barabishe. Ubwo mama yahise ajya i Kabgayi, mukuru wanjye nawe, ha…abana bari basigaye ahongaho barakomeza barihishanya n' abongabo. Maman we amusiga ahongaho, nawe arakomeza ajya i Kabgayi. Maman ageze i Kabgayi ntabwo twamenye irengero rye, niba yarapfuye, niba atarapfuye… ariko ‘peut-être' [birashoboka] ko yapfuye kuko kuva intambara yarangira ntabwo twamubonye, nta nubwo twigeze tumenya urupfu rwe , ntitwamenye n'aho yaguye .
Umulisa M.Claire: Ubwongubwo mukuru wanjye aguma ahongaho, nanjye nguma kwa marene [marraine], hashize iminsi ibiri…ni ibiri yashize; mu gitondo marene [marraine] arambwira, ngo: "rero ngo: ntabwo nkomeza kukubika, ngo: nanjye ngo batazaza bakanyica. Ngo: none ibyiza, ngo urabizi ko wazanye hano na mukuru wawe, na mama wawe, kandi baragiye, none ibyiza ni uko wabakurikira aho bagiye." Mbwira marene [marraine] ‘ese nzagenda…ko n'inzira banyuzemo ntayizi, nzaca he?' Ngo: "uzagende ibyo birakureba. Wapfa , wakira…ngo: ubwo, ngo sinzi ukuntu byamera." Mu gitondo…[kubera ko nari ndwaye n'igisebe mu ivi bari barantemye, sinashoboraga kugenda neza]…Mu gitondo imvura iri kugwa turagenda…ndagenda jyenyine, ngeze ahantu ku kayira, ndavuga: ‘ese ubu ndajya he? Nderekeza he ? Mama sinzi aho yagiye. Mukuru wanjye sinzi aho yagiye. abo tuvukana bo reka, duherukana tuva mu rugo sinarinzi irengero ryabo. Ubu se ndajya he?' Nigira inama yo gusubira aho twari twa…aho twagiye intambara igitera, ahongaho muri Runda, ndongera nsubirayo. Ngezeyo, uwo musaza kubera ko nawe yari akaramye cyane ku bintu bya Jenoside, ariko akaba yari afite abahungu be, b'abana beza. Baramubwira bati: "uyu mwana ni umwana mutoya. Nta byangombwa bamubaza. None se ufite kibazo ki? Mubike wowe, kugeza igihe intambara izarangirira, Interahamwe nizizajya ziza ntizimuzi, uzajye uvuga ko ari umwuzukuru wawe."
Umulisa M.Claire: Ndahaguma ariko sinkamenye aho abo twari kumwe bagiye, intambara irakomeza, irakomeza, bigejejemo hagati nko mu kwa gatandatu intambara y'amasasu iraza. Ngera ahongaho muri Runda, tugeze muri Runda, ubwo Inkotanyi nyine zigeze muri Runda igihe amasasu yabaga, ubwo turahunga, duhunga twese. Ndeba gusigara mu nzu jyenyine biranshobera. Turongera na none twambuka ahantu kuko Runda yari iteranye na Taba. Kandi Taba niho yari iwacu. Turahanyura turagenda, ngeze ahantu bita i Kanyinya duhunga tuhasanga bariyeri [barrière]. Tuhasanze bariyeri barahagarika abantu, noneho bakagenda batureba mu biganza, abana batagiraga ibyangombwa. Bagenda batureba mu biganza, bandebye mu kiganza barambaza ngo iwacu ni hehe ? Ndababeshya mbabwira amazina atari ay'ababyeyi banjye barandeka. Turakomeza turagenda, tugera ahantu za Nyabikenke, tugera ahantu za Bulinga, hose turahazunguruka, tugeze ku Gisenyi turongera turagaruka, ubwo intambara yari imeze nk'ihosheje.
Umulisa M.Claire: Turongera turagaruka tujya…nyine nsubira aho intambara yabaye ndi, kuko nta wundi muntu twari turi kumwe. Nsubira ahongaho muri Runda, maze gusubira muri Runda, ubwo intambara yari irangiye. Ubwo dusanga wa mukecuru aracyariho, ariko wa musaza yarapfuye. Turagenda tujya ahantu ku Ruyenzi mu nkambi, turahakambika. Hashira iminsi mikeya, nkajya ntegereza yuko nibura hari umuntu w'iwacu waza, ndamubura ngumana n'abongabo. Mu kwezi kwa munani muri 1994, icyo gihe nari ndi…twari twagiye mu misa, tuje dusa…nsanga mukuru wanjye yaje, mubonye nsanga ni nk'ibitangaza bikomeye. Mbere yo kumusuhuza naramubajije: "ese uri muzima?" Arambwira: "ndi muzima." "ntabwo wapfuye? Cyangwa ni umuzimu wawe ndi gusuhuza?" Arambwira: "oya ni jyewe ndi muzima." "Ese wabaga he?" arambwira ngo: yari…yageze nyine ahongaho i Musambira, ahongaho habaga amafamilles [imiryango] yacu, arakomeza yihishanwa nabo aragenda agera Zaire, arongera aragaruka.
Umulisa M.Claire: Dutegereza yuko rero mama yaza, cyangwa dutegereza ko n'abandi bose bo mu rugo baza, turategereza turaheba. Abantu b'iwacu ntabwo tuzi urupfu bapfuye, nta nubwo tuzi ahantu babiciye. Kereka papa wenyine niwe biciye ahantu ku ‘gacenter', aho bamujyanye, niho bamutsinze.
Umulisa M.Claire: Ubwo intambara irangiye, jyewe mu minsii… Kuva mu kwa munani, icyenda na kane [1994] kugeza mu kwa mbere, icyenda na gatanu [1995] niho…narakomeje mba ahongaho, aho narokokeye. Njyewe na mukuru wanjye uwonguwo, turakomezanya. Noneho basa nk'aho…bashaka kutugira abakoroni [kudukoroniza], intambara yabaye niga quatrième primaire [mu mwaka wa kane w'amashuri abanza], banga ko nsubira kwiga. Noneho kubera ko mukuru wanjye we…nawe ntabwo yari mukuru cyane, ariko we yari andushije ubwenge . Arareba ati: "ese ubu, ubu buzima tuzabugumamo gute?" Banze y'uko ujya kwiga, kandi nanjye banze y'uko nsubira kwiga." Bo ikintu bashakaga, bashakaga ngo: tujye twahira ibyatsi by'inka zabo, duhinge, tubavomere, mbese dukore akazi ko mu rugo, aricyo mbese tubamarira, noneho nabo babone ko ari cyo baturerera .
Umulisa M.Claire: Mukuru wanjye aragenda ansiga ahongaho, twari dufite umu Bourgmestre w'iwacu, nawe yari yaracitse ku icumu. Aragenda arabimubwira ukuntu ibintu bimeze, aramubwira ati: "ese ngukorere iki?" Muri abana ntabwo mushobora kujya mu nzu ukwanyu; ese mwajya mu nzu mugatungwa n'iki? Mwabaho mute? Nta na famille mwasigaranye, ngo nibuze iba protéger [ibarinde] mu buzima bwanyu? Mukuru wanjye aramubwira ati: "aho kugirango tugume mu buzima turimo, twaba mu nzu yacu twashaka tukanapfiramo." Ubwo hari hari inzu z'interahamwe, interahamwe zari zarahunze. Aduha inzu, amaze kuduha inzu, turagenda tuyibamo. Ubwo yari muri mirongo cyenda na gatanu [1995], nanjye nsubira kwiga. Mukuru wanjye we, areba gusubira kwiga biramushobera, kubera ko ntabwo yari kwiga ngo nanjye nige. Ubwo hashize iminsi mike, muri mirongo cyenda na…na gatandatu [1996], mukuru wanjye, Bourgmestre w'iwacu amuha akazi k'ubu percepteur. Aragenda abona akazi, noneho nanjye mbona ubushobozi bwo gukomeza kwiga. Muri mirongo cyenda na karindwi [1997], nibwo natangiye sécondaire, njya muri sécondaire, mukuru wanjye arakomeza arakora. Arakora bigejeje muri 2000, nari ndi muri quatrième sécondaire [muwa kane w'amashuri yisumbuye] ubwo mayor [umuyobozi w'akarere, wahoze ari ‘Bourgmestre'] wacu avaho. Haza undi. Noneho haje undi utatuzi, utazi ubuzima bwacu uko bumeze, baba obligés [biba ngombwa] yuko abantu badafite diplôme [impamyabushobozi] bava ku kazi. Mukuru wanjye ava ku kazi. ndi quatrième [mu mwaka wa kane]. Avuye ku kazi, noneho ubwongubwo kubera ko na FARG[ikigega gitera inkunga abacitse ku icumu rya Jenoside] yari imaze kuza, FARG [ikigega] ikazajya indihira, ariko mu kibazo cyo mu rugo ubuzima buratugora .
Umulisa M.Claire: Ariko icyo gihe ntabwo twabaga mu mugi wa Kigali, twabaga i Gitarama ku isambu. Ibwo iyo sambu, kubera ko mukuru wanjye agikora, ntabwo sambu ntiyigeze yangirika, yashyiragamo abantu bakayikora, ibivuyemo bikadutunga. Akimara guhagarara ku kazi, ubwo ibintu byari biri mu isambu nyine byarakomeje biradutunga. Noneho hashize iminsi, ngo haza itegeko rivuga ko umuntu wese, azasubiza iby'abandi. Ya nzu bayidukuramo. Bamaze kuyidukuramo, ubuzima buradukomerana. Ubwongubwo niho twahise twumva isi ihagaze, ariko mukuru wanjye agerageza kwegera FARG[ikigega…]. yegereye FARG, ubwo FARG yumva yuko ikibazo cyacu gikomeye, ikazajya iduha inkunga ya buri kwezi 20'000frw/mois [ibihumbi makumyabiri ku kwezi].
Umulisa M.Claire: Ubwongubwo muri 2001, aribwo nyine twabonaga n'ayo mafranga ya FARG, mukuru wanjye nawe… ubwo nari ngeze muri cinquième sécondaire. Abona ko [mukuru wanjye] ubuzima…ubuzima bwe nawe, bumaze ku, buzapondekara [buzangirika], kubera ko nta kintu yari yigejejeho. Kubera ko we intambara yabaye yiga deuxième sécondaire [umwaka wa kabiri w'amshuri yisumbuye]. Ubwo aravuga ati: "ugeze cinquième sécondaire [mu wa gatanu wisumbuye] , kandi urabona ko FARG iduprotega [iturwanaho] ikaduha ticket n'ibikoresho, none nanjye ngiye kureba uburyo najya kwiga . Ubwo nawe yahise ajya gushaka ishuri, nawe aragenda ariga. Ariga FARG [ikigega] irakomeza iradufasha, imaze kudufasha bigejeje muri 2002, ubwo FARG [ikigega] iduha inzu mu midugudu y'abana bibana hariya Kimironko . Imaze kuduha inzu tuyijyamo, FARG iba décentralisé [yegerezwa abaturage], gufasha abantu iba irabihagaritse. Imaze kubihagarika , ubwo jyewe nari ndangije kwiga…imaze kubihagarika ubwo njyewe nari ndangije kwiga…mbere yo kugirango nyine ihagarike kudufasha, ubwo ngewe nari ndangije kwiga. Ejo bundi, mbona ikiraka muri Ibuka, ndagikora, ubwo kiradutunga, na mukuru wanjye nawe abona ibikoresho byo kugirango ajye ku ishuri. Ikiraka kirahagarara, kimaze guhagarara ubuzima nabwo burahagarara.
Umulisa M.Claire: Ubwo ubuzima rero, sinzi…sinakubwira ngo ubuzima bwacu bumeze gutya, ubuzima bwacu burakomeye. Wenda niba ugize ikibazo, ugerageza kukiihanganira, kuko nta wundi wacyereka. Ubu uwo mukuru wanjye nawe ageze nawe cinquième sécondaire [muwa gatanu w'amashuri yisumbuye]. Ariko nagize Imana nanjye ndangije mbona diplôme, ariko ubuzima bwacu kuri ubungubu ni ubuzima bugoranye. Wenda sinavuga ngo umuntu ariheba , ngerageza kwicalma [gutuza]. Kugirango wenda ubone imibereho, ni uko uba ubonye nk'umuntu akakugirira impuhwe, cyangwa se akakwibuka. Akavuga ati: "uyu mwana ibyo aribyo byose reka mufashe muri ubu buryo." Iyo utamubonye nabwo, ubwo nyine urakomeza bwa buzima bubi bugakomeza bukakugendaho.
Umulisa M.Claire: Cyane cyane ariko, ubuzima budukomerera cyane…cyane, muri iki gihe ni ubuzima bw'imibereho. Kuko mu mibereho y'umuntu, iyo udafite ahantu ukura ikigutunga, ntubone n'umuntu ugufasha, ntubone n'umuntu ukwitaho, ntubone n'umuntu ukubaza ikikubabaje, igihe cyose wumva yuko ubuzima bwawe bugeze kure.
Pothin: Yee, hari utubazo tumwe nakubaza dukeya, icya mbere nakubaza, watubwiye ko babaroshye mu ruzi na mukuru wawe , hanyuma muza kubasha kuruvamo. Ese ni uruzi rwabanze? Ese urwo ruzi ni uruhe ?
Umulisa M.Claire: Ni uruzi rwa Nyabarongo, ariko baraturohanye jyewe na mukuru wanjye, ariko ntabwo twiburukiye hamwe. Jyewe niburukiye hano Kamuhanda, niburuka ino aha. We yiburukira hakurya y'uruzi hirya. Aho yiburukiye ni ahantu bita i Nyagatovu, niho yiburukiye.
Pothin: Ese yaba yarakubwiye uburyo yambutse, agaruka aho mwari muturutse… aho mwahuriye nyine kugirango mwongere mubonane ?
Umulisa M.Claire: Yee, yarakomeje atambika hano ku muhanda w'i Shyorongi, araza arongera agera hano ku kiraro kigabanya Runda na Taba, aza kuri uwo Mukecuru twari dufitanye…wo mu ma famille [wo mu muryango] wari Nyirasenge wa Mama.
Pothin: Watubwiye abantu b'interahamwe bari bafunze, nka ba Minani, Yansoneye n'abandi. Nonese waba wibuka… cyangwa waba uzi amaherezo yabo? Kuko Minani we ngirango yanagutemye ku kaguru.
Umulisa M.Claire: Umh! Intambara ikirangira, uwo Minani twaraa… nyine tukiza twagiye kureba ku isambu ukuntu hameze, dusanga Minani arahari. Akimbona we ubwoba bwaramuriye, arambaza, ati: "ese muri wowe ndabizi naraguhemukiye, naragutemye. Mu kugutema numvaga ntakeneye yuko ubaho. None urumva nagukorera iki?" Naramubwiye nti: ku buzima bwange utarashakaga yuko mbaho, hari amategeko azaguhana. Twagiye kumurega ku Karere, baramufata baramufunga, ariko yaguye mu munyururu. We na mushiki we bose barabafashe, mushiki we aracyari mu munyururu , we afungiye i Gitarama, ariko Minani we yarapfuye yaguye mu munyururu.
Pothin: Izindi nterahamwe , zo hari n'ubwo wasanga ari nazo zakwiciye ababyeyi, cyangwa abandi bavandimwe, zo ibyabo byaba byaragenze gute?
Umulisa M.Claire: Kubera ko mu gitero cyaje iwacu bwa mbere, umuntu twabashije kumenyamo cyane ni Karekezi. Ubwo niwe wagiye ajyana Papa, Kandi Papa kuva yagenda ntabwo yagarutse. Niba ariwe wamwishe, niba atari we kubera ko bari abantu benshi, ntabwo mbizi. Ariko gusa ni uko uwonguwo ari we namenye mo, uwo bitaga Karekezi niwe namenye mo gusa, amazina.
Pothin: Yaba akiriho se cyangwa…?
Umulisa M.Claire: Ariho, bari baranamufunze. Karekezi yishe abantu benshi cyane, ba…ba… nawe iyo umubajije uti: "wishe abantu bangahe?" Aravuga ati: "simbazi." Bari baramufunze ariko nyuma baramufunguye, ngo: yarireze, yemera icyaha. Baramufunguye ubu ari mu rugo.
Pothin: None se nkomoje kuri ibyo, ndumva byaba byarabaye mu rwego rwa gacaca. Ubwo se iyo yemeye icyaha yemera ko yishe n'abo bantu?
Umulisa M.Claire: Ntabwo mbizi ibyongibyo, niba abongabo nabo…niba abongabo nabo abemera yuko yabishe. Ariko we iyo umubajije aravuga ati: "nishe abantu benshi. Abo nishe sinzi umubare wabo, gusa nzi ko nishe abantu benshi."
Pothin: None se yaba yaraje kubasaba imbabazi ?
Umulisa M. Claire: Oya, ntabwo yaje.
Pothin: None se dukomoje kuri ibyo, wowe utekereza iki kuri Gacaca ?
Umulisa M.Claire: Njyewe kuri Gacaca ukuntu nyitekerezaho, abantu bishe, bishe babifitiye umugambi. Umuntu rero njyewe aje imbere yanjye, aje kunsaba imbabazi kubera ko yishe, yaranyiciye. Yishe abishaka kandi abikuye ku mutima, ni uko ubutegetsi bwamuhana bukurikije catégorie [urwego arimo] y'ukwica kwe.
Pothin: Hari ibintu bimwe biku… hari ikintu gikunze kuvugwa cyane kijyanye n'ubumwe n'ubwiyunge. Ese wowe nk'umuntu wagiriwe nabi bingana gutya, na n'ubu ukaba ukibayeho mu ngaruka zibyo bintu byabaye. Ubona bishoboka cyangwaa… wowe ubibona gute ?
Umulisa M.Claire: Njyewe ku ruhare rwanjye, kubera nk'uko nabuze abantu nkaba nsigaye iheruheru. Njyewe umuntu wanyiciye, ni uko yahabwa igihano nawe kimutoucha [kimukoraho], nawe akumva yuko nawe yagize nabi. Kuko sinavuga wenda ngo… ngo nibamwice, si njyewe wabivuga yabibwirwa n'amategeko. Njyewe nta burengazira nabona, ariko jyewe ku bwanjye bamwica . Ariko ku burengazira bw'amategeko, bamuha igihano kijyanye n'icyaha yakoze.
Pothin: Nonese…eeh, ibyo aribyo byose iyo umuntu yanyuze mu bintu nk'ibyo wanyuzemo, akaba abaho mu buzima nk'ubwo uriho, kubera nk'ibyo wanyuzemo, aba afite umwihariko we. Wowe nko kuba umuntu wacitse ku icumu wumva ari ikintu…bivuze iki? Wumva wabisobanura gute…?
Umulisa M.Claire: Mbisobanura ?
Pothin: Uvuga uti: "umuntu uwacitse ku icumu ameze atya, afite ibibazo bingana gutya, yiyumva gutya." Unakurikije n'ubuzima buriho, na… n'ibiriho bibaho byose, bigerageza gutunganya kiriya kibazo.
Umulisa M.Claire: Nk'umuntu…nk'umuntu nkanjye wahuye n'ikibazo, ukuntu numva Jenoside. Hari ukuntu utekereza nk'ubuzima wagiye unyuramo, ukagereranya n'ubwo uriho ubu, ukabona ntaho wavuye, nta n'aho wagiye. Iyo ubonye bimeze gutyo, wiha amahoro. Kuko utihaye amahoro, washiduka wagiye no mu muhanda wasaze, kandi noneho ukanezeza babandi bakugiriye nabi. Ariko iyo wihaye amahoro nta n'umenya icyo utekereza, gusa urabyihorera ugatuza, ugategereza ubundi buzima buri imbere, ubu twe tuzi ibyashize ariko ntabwo tuzi ibiri imbere. Utegeza nyine ikiri imbere niba ari kiza se, cyangwa se niba ari kibi, nyine mu buzima ugategereza ibindi biri imbere yawe.
00 :34:27 Pothin Hari ikintu numva twavugaho cyane cyane ku buryo bw'umwihariko. Urabona wowe uri umuntu wanyuze mu buzima bukomeye, kandi waciye mu ibintu byinshi. Nonese ibyo aribyo byose ibyo waciyemo wabitewe no kubura ababyeyi n'ibyabayeho, ariko hari ubundi buzima wabayeho n'ubwo wenda wari umwana bwa mbere y'intambara. Waba wibuka, cyangwa watubwira uti: "jyewe numva mbere y'intambara nkurikije uko iwacu twari tumeze, byari bimeze gutya ? Waducira muri make ubuzima bw'iwanyu mbere y'intambara ?
Umulisa M.Claire: Twebwe mbere y'intambara, twebwe twari abana batanu . Muri abo bana batanu ni jyewe wari uwanyuma . Kandi nta kibazo mu rugo twagiraga, kubera ko ari Mama, ari na Papa bose barakoraga. Nta kibazo twagiraga pe! Wenda n'iyo no hanze habaga n'ibibazo, twebwe nta kintu byabaga bitubwiye. Kubera ko twari dufite abaturebera. Ariko intambara yararangiye, kubera ko jyewe na mukuru wanjye, ni natwe twari abanyuma , abari badukuriye bose baragiye. Intambara rero irangiye…intambara irangiye, nibuze nta na famille [umuryango] nimwe igaragara, yaba yarasigaye, ku buryo twayibwira ikibazo. Famille [umuryango] na yitwa ngo yarasigaye, ni za familles [ya miryango] nazo ziriho zitabashije. Ubwo rero kugirango ubuzima wari urimo mbere, ubu comparer [ubugereranye] n'ubw'ubungubu, ubona harimo différence [butandukanye]. Kuko ubungubu nshobora kugira ikibazo, singire uwo nkibwira. Mbese ubu nshobora kumara n'iminsi ibiri ntari narya, ariko mbere y'intambara nta n'umunsi… nta n'isa… igihe cyose numvaga nkeneye kurya nararyaga. Ariko ubungubu nshobora no kumara n'iminsi itatu, kandi ngaceceka. Kubera ko mba nabuze uwo ntura ikibazo. Ubuzima bwa nyuma y'intambara, ni compliqué [buragoye] cyane . Nta n'icya kane, cya mbere y'intambara.
Pothin: Undi muntu numva ukomeye cyane muri iki gihe nyuma y'intambara, cyane cyane mu buzima bwawe, ni mukuru wawe. Nonese watubwira iki kuri mukuru wawe, angana iki ? ubona afite imigambi imeze gute ?
Umulisa M.Claire: Ubundi mukuru wanjye nawe, ni umwana…si umwana cyane yavutse muri 1981. Ariko ubuzima bwe nawe ni hatari. Kuko aho yari ageze, yari kuba ari umuntu wenda nawe wagize icyo yimarira. Ariko kubera ko yabuze umuntu umusunika ngo yigire igihe, amashuri ye ayarangize. Ubuzima bwe bwabaye nkubusubira inyuma. Kubera ko we yabonye ko ansigaranye kandi ndi umwana kuri we, abura ikintu yankorera, ava mu ishuri, kugirango wenda mbone uko nakwiga. We yasubiye ku ishuri ari uko FARG [ikigega]ije. Kandi asubira ku ishuri ari uko FARG[ikigega] yemeye kuzajya idufasha buri kwezi. Ibyo byose bitari byaba FARG [ikigega] itaraza, we yemeye kumvunikira, kugirango mbe najya ejuru. Kugeza na n'ubu ntabwo amashuri ye arayarangiza, kandi intera ye ntabwo imwemereye kuba yaba akiga sécondaire [amashuri yisumbuye], ariko ubu ari muri cinquième sécondaire [muwa gatanu w'amashuri yisumbuye]. Kandi n'iyo ageze mu rugo, asanga ibibazo ari byinshi, wenda nkanjye yaba yarasize…waba warasigaye inyuma, nta kintu mumariye. Ndi gutya nanjye, nta kazi ngira nta ki…nta n'undi muntu wundi ngira umproteja [undwanaho] wenda ngo nanjye ngire ikintu naba namumarira. Ava ku ishuri nabwo, akaza agasubira muri bwa buzima bubi, yari arimo mbere.
Pothin: Nta butumwa waha nk'imfubyi za Jenoside? Cyane cyane ari imfubyi zirera, ari n'imfubyi zirerwa. Kuko…cyane cyane abana, abakiri batoya. Kuko biragaragara ko bagombye kugira uburyo bakwitwara.
Umulisa M.Claire: Njyewe nk'inama nabaha, ni uko ubuzima bwose banyuzemo, n'ubwo bakirimo ubu, bashobora kubwitwaramo neza. Ikintu cyose babonye, n'icyo batabonye bakumva ko kibanyuze. Ntibagire irari. Kuko bagize irari byabaviramo n'ibindi bibi. Ariko banyuzwe n'uko bari, yaba bari muma familles [mu miryango] cyangwa se baba abirera… burya hariho n'ukuntu uba muri famille [mu muryango] aho kugirango ubeho neza, ahubwo ya famille [wa muryango] ikagutesa. Iyo utihanganye rero ngo ubane nabo, nibwo ujya kumva ukumva ngo umwana kanaka yararutse. Ugasanga muri kwa kuraruka kwe akuyemo conséquences [ingaruka] z'indwara, icyo namukonseya [inama namugira] ho ni uko ikintu cyose cyaba kiza, cyaba kibi imbere ye ashobora kugifata nk'ikiza. kugirango mu buzima bwe buri imbere, ubuzima bwe buzashobore gufonctiona [kugenda] neza.

English Translation

Umulisa M.Claire: My name is Umulisa Marie-Claire. Before the war we were living in Kamonyi district in Gitarama province, in a sector called Murehe.
Umulisa M. Claire: When the war was about to start, I wasn't so informed about it but there was multipartism and I would see political parties having conflicts; MRND and MDR. That is what I was aware of. Habyarimana later on died. I remember we had a councillor called Iyakaremye Emmanuel. He came at home and asked my dad in which politial party he was. My dad replied that his political party was in his heart and that it wasn't necesary to tell it to him. A week later, some people from different neighbouring sectors came to our home sector. They had come to kill the Tutsis, and when they reached home, they took my dad away. They asked him to give them money. He had 30,000 FRW. So, he gave it to them and came back home. Two days later, it was on a Sunday and we had gone to church. When we came back, they came home and called my dad. All of us were in the compound and they told dad that they were going to kill all of us. They took all the cows that were at home and ate them but they never killed us as they had said. After about a week, the war broke up into the whole district.
Umulisa M.Claire: I remember they came home one morning. They knocked at the front door. My mother and all the kids who were at home skipped the fence and only dad remained there. There was a millet plantation behind home and we just hid there. We did not recognized any of the people who came home, we only managed to identify two of them. One was called Karamage and the other one was called Minani. They came and took dad to a nearby centre. They made him sit there and beat him. I heard that they did not kill him on that day. We spent about two days in the millet plantation. Then they came back at home, but dad was still alive; they hadn't killed him yet. A day later… we didn't know where dad was. In the millet plantation where we were, behind home… we were with mum and the rest of my brothers and sisters. We were five children. The boys left us. I remained there with mum and my older sister. In the evening we went to a certain hill in our village and hid in a cave. And the following evening we left and mum took us to our nieghbours. When we reached there mum asked them to hide me as I was the last born. They told my mum that they were not allowed to keep Inyenzi(cockroaches). We immediately went back to hide in a millet plantation. After about two days… mum suggested that we go to a church and hide there.
Umulisa M.Claire: When we reached the church… it was around 10 o'clock.. We entered in the church and spent about three days there. After three days they came to get us and led us towards the river. When we reached a certain center, we were stopped and they wanted to remain behind with mum and told us to go back. Both my sister and I refused to leave our mum behind. They started beating us and since we were young kids, we agreed and left mum there. We went to another neighbour's house. Both our families were friends, so my sister and I decided to go there and when we reached, we hid behind their home. As we were still hiding, we saw one girl and one boy members of that family and we called them. We thought they would be merciful and hide us in their home.
Umulisa M.Claire: So we called them and when they came they asked us, "How did our people [the Hutu] leave you?" They immediately took us [my sister and I] to some Interahamwe called Byemayire, who was a terrible killer. They took us there so that Byemayire would kill us. Fortunately, Byemayire wasn't around. They proceeded and took us to a nearby center, hoping to find there some other cruel Interahamwe so that they would kill us. When we reached there, two men were hesitant, "We cannot kill these two kids; their father was a very good man and he helped us out several times. Let them go and be killed elsewhere." Therefore, we left. But the boy called Minani and his sister Yansoneye followed us saying that they were going to show us to Interahamwe in order for them to kill us. When we reached a place called Musenyi, I failed to walk because I was very tired. Minani then hacked me on the leg and said that I should hurry.
Umulisa M.Claire: Though I was hacked, I still continued to walk; I wasn't too weak to stop walking. As we were slopping down the hill, still with my sister's company, they called some people who were down at the river and told them that they had brought them some Inkotanyi, to get ready. Therefore, they continued to slop down with us and when we reached the river, my sister was forced to carry a tree trunk and they made me carry two huge stones, then they dumped us in the water. We spent two days in the water. We found… I found myself in the sugar cane plantations that were around and my sister came out from the other side of the river. The waters threw us in two different areas. That was after two days and I was in the sugar cane plantation but I didn't know where my sister was. I had last seen her when they were throwing us into the waters. I remained in the sugar cane plantation naked; I didn't… I came out of water without any cloth. Some of our relatives were in Runda; an old lady who was my mum's aunt. But I didn't know the place very well. They dumped us in the river from a place called Iraro and we came out at a certain place called Kamuhada, at a bridge that is between Kigali and Gitarama. Then when night fell, I went to some hill called Kagina. It was in the middle of the night, at around 1 o'clock in the morning.
Umulisa M.Claire: Therefore, I walked and walked. It was almost morning, at around 4 o'clock in the morning that is when I reached that home. I went and knocked at their door. They hadn't seen me in a long time. They opened for me and I found my mum already there. And when she saw me, she was filled with sorrow. Then she asked me, "Where is your older sister?" I told her that by the time they drowned us, we were together but I don't know what happened to her later. So my mum and I stayed there and two days later, my older sister also came. My mum asked her how she came. She told her that she was coming from somewhere across the river, in a place called Nyagatovu. The three of us remained together. Actually, the man in that family was not being hunted. He was the one to hide us and his wife was an aunt to mum and she was also among the group of hunted people. Since her husband was a Hutu, he was not threatened. We all continued to hide there; my mum, my older sister and I. Later… it was in… it was still in April in the middle of the war. Then in May, the man [husband to her mum's aunt] said, "I do not want to be accused of being Inkotanyi. All of you go." He told his wife if she believed she had to continue hiding us, then she should leave with us.
Umulisa M.Claire: The following day in the morning we all [the three of us] left. We went to a certain place called Runda and then to a place called Gihinga. When we reached a certain roadblock, they stopped us. They asked mum to give them her identity card. But she didn't have one. Then they asked her; "Whose kids are those?" she told them we were not her kids, that we were just walking together. They made her sit on a pit. We refused to leave her. We stayed there waiting for them to kill us, but they didn't. After sometime, a group of Interahamwe came. When they reached there, one of them said to the rest, "I know this old lady, she is not a Tutsi." That's how we survived then and went on. I had a godmother in a certain place called Ruzege. Mum took me there, but when we got there, they said that they could not hide such a big number of people, that they would also be killed. But they allowed me to stay with them and asked mum and my sister to look for elsewhere to go. Therefore, they left and I stayed there. But we had other relatives in a place called Nyamiyaga in Musambira commune. When they reached there, they found they had all been killed. Mum immediately left for Kabgayi and my sister stayed there with other kids who were there and they hid together. After mum reached Kabgayi, we never got to know what happened to her; I wonder if she died or if she's still alive, but she most probably died. Since the war ended, we have never seen her. We don't even know even know how she was killed… neither where she died.
Umulisa M.Claire: My sister stayed there and I stayed at my godmother's place. Two days later… I think it was two days, my godmother came and told me, "I will not continue to hide you because they may kill me too." She went on to say, "You remember you came here with your sister and your mum and you know they left. It is better you follow them." I asked her how I was going to follow them yet I didn't know where they had passed. I told her I did not know which way to take. She told me it was none of her business. "Whether you die or survive it is your problem", she said. That is what she told me. In the morning… I remember I was sick; I had a terrible wound on the knee, I couldn't walk properly. In the morning, it was even raining, I left alone and sat on the road wondering what I was going to do. Then I advised myself to go to that place where we first hid when the war had just started. It was in Runda. Therefore I went back there. However the man was very motivated into genocide issues. Fortunately, his sons were good people. So they interceded on my behalf, "This is a very young kid, they will never ask her for identification papers. So why worry? Just keep her until the war is over." They went on to convice him, "The Interahamwe don't know her, in case they come, she will tell them that she is your granddaughter."
Umulisa M.Claire: I stayed there without knowing where the others who were with me had gone. The war went on and at some point they began shooting. The Inkotanyi came to Runda while I was there. During the time of shootings, we all fled together. I thought of staying in the house alone and thought it would be hard. We again crossed over to a certain place… Runda was next to Taba and Taba was my home village. We passed there and went further. We reached a place called Kanyinya, where we found a roadblock. At the roadlock they would stop people and look into the palms of kids who were not yet able to get identity cards. When they looked into mine, they asked me, "Where do you come from?" I lied to them and gave them wrong names of my parents. Then they let me go. We continued our journey and reached Nyabikenke and Bulinga. We went through all those areas. When we reached Gisenyi, we turned back as it seemed like the war had calmed down.
Umulisa M.Claire: We went back to…to the place where I was during the war. Since I was alone, I went back to Ruda. The war had stopped then. I found when the old lady was still alive but the old man had died. We went to a camp in Ruyenzi and camped there. After some few days… I thought that maybe someone from home may come to that camp, but no one came. I just stayed there with those people. In August 1994… I remember we had gone to church, when I came back, I found my sister there. It was like a big miracle to me. Before greeting her, I first asked her; "Are you still alive?" She said, "I am alive." Then I asked her, "You didn't die? or am I just talking to a ghost." She said, "No, it is me, I am still alive." "Where were you living?" I asked her. Then she told me that she… she went to Musambira, where we had family members and continued to hide. Later she went to Zaire [Congo] and came back.
Umulisa M.Claire: Therefore, we waited to see if mum or other people from home would come but none turned up. We neither know how people from home died nor where they died except dad who was killed at a certain center where they had taken him. That is where they killed him.
Umulisa M.Claire: Then the war stopped. From August 1994 to January 1995 I continued to live there where I was when the war stopped. My sister and I continued to live there together. They somehow wanted to make us their slaves… the war begun when I was in primary four. Then they stopped me from going back to school. Though my sister wasn't so old, she was slightly wiser than me. Then she asked, "How shall we live this kind of life? They can't allow you to go to school; neither did they allow me… All they wanted us for was to collect grass for their cows, to dig, to fetch water, generally to do all the domestic work. That was what they expected from us and to them that was the reason why they were taking care of us.
Umulisa M.Claire: My sister left me there. The Burgomaster of our home area was a genocide survivor too. Therefore, my sister went to him and told him what was going on. Then he asked her, "What can I do for you? You are still young; you cannot live alone in a house. And even if you did, what would you survive on? You have no one left in your family that could maybe protect you in your life." Then my sister told him, "Instead of continuing to live the way we are living, we'd better live in a house alone. We don't care if it means dying." By then there were Interahamwe houses, which were empty; the Interahamwe had fled. He gave us a house. Then we started living in it. That was in 1995, I went back to school but my sister was confused about what to do. We both went to school at the same time for as short time. Later on in 1996, the burgomaster got her a job as a tax collector. So, when she started working, I was able to continue school. In year 1997, I started secondary school and my sister continued working until the year 2000. I was in secondary four when our mayor was changed. They brought another one who was not aware of our life conditions. They stopped all employees who did not have diplomas and my sister was among them. I was in secondary four when she left work. Fortunately, FARG was founded. Therefore they would pay for my school fees but as far as domestic needs were concerned, we got a lot of problems.
Umulisa M.Claire: We were not living in Kigali then. We were living in Gitarama at the farm. Our farm was well treated since my sister was working; she would employ people to work on it and we would live on its harvest. At first when she had just left work, havests from the farm continued to feed us. After some time, there was a new policy that was put forward; everyone had to give everything that did not belong to him or her. Therefore, we were asked to live the other house. When they took us out of that house, life became hard. It was as though life had stopped. But my sister tried to contact FARG and then FARG considered our problem. And they would give us 20,000 Frw per month.
Umulisa M.Claire: Then in the year 2001, which is when we used to get the funding of FARG… my sister too… I was in secondary five. My sister realised that her life was also getting worse because she never had any documents [diplomas or certificates]. The war began when she was in secondary two. Then she told me, "You have reached in senior five and you can see that FARG is helping us; they provide us with school funds, transport and other school expenses. It is a high time I also went back to school." Immediately she started looking for a school and started studying as soon as she got one. FARG continued to help us until 2002 when they [FARG] gave us a house in the Kimironko residences, which were constructed for children who live on their own [orphans]. We started living in that house. Later FARG was decentralised and they stopped helping people. When they did… I had finished my studies before they stopped helping us. Then I got a temporary job in Ibuka. I worked and the money was helpful. My sister was actually able to get some of the school material she needed. Then the job stopped and life stopped too.
Umulisa M.Claire: Now I cannot tell you how exactly life is, all I can say is life is really hard for us. When one has a problem, he or she tries to bear with it because there is no one to solve the problem for you. Today my older sister is in senior five. I was lucky to succeed and get a diploma. However life is currently very hard. Well, I cannot say that we are desperate; we always try to be serene and look for a living. Sometimes we meet good Samaritans who have pity on us or remember us and say, "I will help these kids in such and such a way." And when you don't get such people, life still goes on though in such a misarable way.
Umulisa M.Claire: Mostly, the hardest part in life is how to find food. Because in life when you neither have where to get food from nor someone to help or care about you; someone to find out if you have any problem, you feel like life is far from treating you well.
Pothin: There are some questions we would like to ask you… First, you told us that you were thrown into the river; you and your sister, and later you came out of it. Is it because the waters didn't want to kill you…? Which river was it?
Umulisa M.Claire: It was river Nyabarongo. We were drowned my sister and I. We did not come out together. I came out from this side of Kamuhanda and she came out from across the river in a place called Nyagatovu. That is where she came out.
Pothin: Did she tell you how she crossed the river in order to go back to where you had come from… I mean where you all saw each other again?
Umulisa M.Claire: Yes she told me. She walked up to the road that goes to Shyorongi and then continued up to the brigde that is between Runda and Taba. Then she went to the house of the old lady whom we were related; she was my mum's aunt.
Pothin: You talked about some Interahamwes who were imprisoned, like Minani, Yansoneye and others. Do you remember… or do you know what happened to them? Because, I believe it is Minani who cut your leg…
Umulisa M.Claire: Umh! After the war, we met the so called Minani… Well, when we came back, we went to see our farm in the village. We found Minani there. When he saw me, he was filled with fear. Then he said to me, "I know I betrayed you, I hacked you. And while doing so, I did not want you to live anymore. What can I do to make up for what I did to you?" I just told him, "There are laws that will punish you for the fact that you never wanted to see me alive again." We went to report him at the district and he was arrested. He later on died in jail. His sister too was arrested and she is still in prison. She is in Gitarama prison. But Minani died in prison.
Pothin: What about the other Interahamwe… you never know they may be the ones who killed your parents or your other relatives. Do you know anything about them?
Umulisa M.Claire: In the group of attackers who first attacked our home, the person we managed to identify was Karekezi. He is the one who took our father away. And since our father left, he has never come back. But I don't know if he is the one who killed him or his companions because they were very many. But he is the only one I knew in the whole group of attackers. He is called Karekezi. He is the only one whose name I knew.
Umulisa M.Claire: He is still alive. He was once arrested; Karakezi killed a lot of people. Even if you asked him, "How many people did you kill?" He would say he doesn't know. He was arrested some time and later they released him because he said the truth and admitted his crimes. Now he is at his home.
Pothin: Well according to what you have told me; it seems like all that happened was in the context of Gacaca. Tell me, when one admits their crime, does it mean they have also admitted that they killed people?
Umulisa M.Claire: I don't know about that. I don't know if he actually admits that he killed those people. But when you try asking him, he says, "I killed a lot of people and I cannot tell the exact number, all I know is that I killed so many people."
Pothin: Did he come to apologise to you?
Umulisa M. Claire: No he's never come.
Pothin: Well, considering that, what do you think of the Gacaca court?
Umulisa M.Claire: What I think about Gacaca court… people who killed had a goal in doing so. Therefore, when someone comes to me asking for forgiveness because he killed people, my people… they killed intentionally with all their hearts… Therefore, the law should punish them according to their crimes.
Pothin: There is something that is often talked about, something concerning unity and reconciliation. To somebody like you who was hurt to that extent and who is still suffering the consequences of their deeds even today. Do you find it possible… or what is your point of view?
Umulisa M.Claire: Personally, as someone who lost everyone and is now living miserably, I believe those who killed should be strongly punished in a way that would affect them. So that they also feel how wrong what they did is. Because I cannot say that… that they should kill them too. It's not my place to say so, it is the role of the law, and I don't have that right. But personally I would suggest they kill them. But as far as the law is concerned, they should be given punishments according to the crimes they committed.
Pothin: Well, when a person experiences some things the way you did and then lives the way you are living due to his or her past, he or she gains some life experience. Therefore, what does it mean to you as a genocide survivor? Could you explain about it?
Umulisa M. Claire: Explain about what?
Pothin: You may say that Genocide survivors are this or that way, they encounter such or such problems, and they feel this way… considering their living and all that is happening to them as they are trying to solve their problems.
Umulisa M.Claire: As a person who… someone like me who got several problems. The way I understand the genocide…there is a time you think about all the things you went through and try to compare it to the life you are leading now; then you come to realise that there is no difference between your past and your present. And when things are like that, you just try to ignore it all. Because if you cannot find a way to ignore it, you might end up on the streets, crazy. This would only contribute to making happy your enemies. But when you try to be still and not let even a single person know what you are thinking about. You just have to calm down and think about the future. We only know the past; we don't know the future. We can only wait for the future, if it happens to be good, fine; if not too bad. In life it is important to wait for what's ahead of us.
Pothin: There is something I would like us to talk about more specifically. You see you are a person who experienced tough times and you have seen a lot of things. However, all was as a result of the loss of your parents due to the war. Do you remember how things were before the war? Can u tell us about it? How were you living? Would you please tell us about your life at home before the war?
Umulisa M. Claire: Before the war, we were five children and I was the last-born. We never used to have problems at home because both mum and dad were working. For sure, we never had any problems. Sometimes there would be problems out there but it wouldn't mean anything to us because there used to be people to look after us. But after the war… my sister and I… yet we were the youngest; all our elders were gone. Even though the war stopped, not any family member was left. Maybe we could be telling them about our problems. Those who survived only are those who can neither support themselves. Therefore, if we compare this life with life before the war, there is a very big difference. Because nowadays I may be having a problem but I can't find anyone to tell it about. For example, I can spend two days without eating, yet before the war, I had never spent even a single day or an hour…every time I would feel like eating, I would eat. But now I can even spend three days and remain silent. Because there is no one I can share my problem with. Life after the war is very complicated. Mathematically, I would say it is not even a quarter of the life I was leading before the war.
Pothin: I noticed that the most special person in your life after the war is your sister. What can you tell us about your sister; how old is she and what are her plans?
Umulisa M.Claire: Although she is not too young, my sister is also young; she was born in 1981. But her life is also horrible. At this time she should have been able to do something with herself. But because she did not have anyone to push her so that she studies on time and complete her studies, her life seems to have declined instead. When she realised that it was just the two of us who survived and yet she was the oldest, she had no other alternative but to leave school so that I would go to school. She went back to school after FARG was founded; that is after FARG had agreed to help us monthly. But before FARG came, she had sacrificed herself so that I also get to some grade. Up to now, she hasn't completed her studies. Normally at her age, she is not supposed to be in secondary school but that is where she is now; she is in senior five at the moment. And whenever she comes back home [from boarding school], she finds several problems. And me who remained behind, she finds there is nothing I improved because I have no job, no one to protect me, so that I also can help her. She comes from school and goes back into the miserable life that she left behind.
Pothin: Is there any message you could give genocide orphans? Especially those that take care of themselves or even to those that are looked after. Those young kids should have a way they should behave…
Umulisa M.Claire: The piece of advice I would give them is, "Never long for luxuries because they can turn out to be so dangerous." If they can appreciate who they are, be it those who are in families or those who are looking after themselves…It is possible to live in a family and yet live in torture. If you are not too patient to live with them, is when people start saying you are a spoiled child. And after misbehaving, she or he may suffer the consequences such as sicknesses. Therefore, all I can advise them is to look at everything before them positively; be it good or bad. It will all contribute in building a better future.

Voir traduction française

Marie Claire: Je m'appelle Umulisa Marie-Claire, avant la guerre,nous habitions dans le secteur Kamonyi, commune Murehe, préfecture de Gitarama.
Marie-Claire: Quand la guerre a commencé, j'étais petite, je ne comprenais pas grand chose sur ce sujet mais je me rappelle qu'il y a d'abord eu la période de multipartisme, des partis comme MDR et MRND étaient toujours en conflit. Après cette période, juste après la mort de Habyarimana, je me rappelle que nous avions un conseiller qui s'appelait Iyakaremye Emmanuel. Ce dernier est venu à la maison demander à mon père : - Tu es dans quel parti toi ? - Mon parti est dans mon cœur, ce n'est pas important que je te le dise, répondit mon père. Une semaine plus tard, des gens sont venus d'un autre secteur pour venir tuer les Tutsi dans le nôtre. Ils sont venus prendre mon père à la maison, ils sont partis avec lui mais après, ils lui ont demandé de l'argent. Papa a dû leur donner 30 000Frw pour qu'ils le laissent rentrer. Une autre fois encore, deux jours après cet événement, c'était un dimanche, on revenait de l'église, ils sont revenus, ils ont appelé mon père, nous étions tous dehors dans le jardin puis ils ont dit qu'ils allaient tous nous tuer…mais ce jour là, ils ont seulement emporté le bétail, ils l'ont mangé mais ils ne nous ont pas tués. Une semaine plus tard, la guerre était générale dans la toute la commune.
Marie-Claire: Ils sont venus, c'était le matin, ils ont frappé au portail, ma mère et nous, les enfants, avons sauté par-dessus la clôture. Mon père est resté à la maison. Nous sommes tombés derrière la clôture, il y avait un champ de sorgho, nous nous sommes cachés dedans. Cependant, nous n'avons pu reconnaître tous que deux hommes parmi les envahisseurs: Karekezi et Minani. Ils ont emmené mon père puis quand ils sont arrivés à un petit centre, ils l'ont fait asseoir, l'ont battu mais ne l'ont pas tué ce jour là. Deux jours plus tard, nous étions toujours cachés dans les épis de maïs, papa était encore en vie, ils sont revenus à la maison, ils ont pillé tous les biens puis ont brûlé la maison. Le lendemain, nous ne savions toujours pas ce qu'était devenu papa, nous étions toujours dans ces champs de sorgho avec maman. Nous étions cinq enfants dans la famille. Les garçons sont partis, je suis restée avec ma mère et ma grande sœur…le soir, nous sommes allées sur une colline de chez nous, quand nous y sommes arrivées, nous nous sommes cachées dans une grotte puis la nuit venue, ma mère nous a emmenées dans une maison voisine pour leur demander de me cacher. J'étais la cadette de la famille, mais les voisins lui ont répondu qu'ils n'avaient pas le droit de cacher des Inkotanyi. Nous avons fait demi-tour, nous sommes donc retournées nous cacher dans les champs de maïs. Trois jours plus tard, maman nous a dit qu'il serait mieux de nous rendre à l'église.
Marie-Claire: Nous sommes arrivées à l'église vers 10 heures. Trois jours plus tard, on est venu nous faire sortir de l'église pour aller nous noyer dans un cours d'eau…nous sommes parties, puis arrivées à un petit centre, ils ont arrêté maman et nous ont dit de continuer mais nous avons refusé de laisser maman. Ils nous ont frappées ma sœur et moi, nous n'étions que des enfants et c'est ainsi que nous avons accepté de partir en laissant maman. Nous sommes parties chez des voisins qui étaient des amis de la famille, quand nous sommes arrivées derrière leur maison, nous nous sommes cachées. Après, nous avons vu une fille avec son frère, ils étaient de cette famille voisine, nous les avons appelés croyant qu'ils auraient pitié et nous cacher chez eux.
Marie-Claire: Nous les avons appelés, ils sont venus mais quand ils sont arrivés, ils se sont exclamés : « Mais comment nos frères [Hutu] ont-ils pu vous laisser ! » Ils nous ont attrapées, nous ont ensuite escortées jusque chez un Interahamwe qui tuait sans pitié, il s'appelait Byemayire. Quand nous sommes arrivés chez ce dernier, il n'était pas là. Ils nous ont encore fait descendre au petit centre à côté dans l'unique but de pouvoir rencontrer des Interahamwe pour qu'ils nous tuent. Quand nous sommes arrivés au centre, il y avait deux hommes mais ils ont dit : « Nous ne pouvons pas tuer ces enfants, leur père était un homme bien, il nous aidait beaucoup. Laissez-les partir, elles seront tuées ailleurs. » Ce garçon, Minani, et sa sœur Yansoneye, insistaient sur le fait que nous devions mourir. Ils nous ont encore emmenées à un endroit appelé ‘Ku Musenyi' mais à un certain moment je ne pouvais plus marcher, j'étais fatiguée. Ce Minani m'a coupé au pied avec sa machette en me disant de marcher plus vite.
Marie-Claire: Après m'avoir découpé, je ne me suis plus arrêtée, j'ai continué la marche. Nous sommes descendus une colline puis il a crié aux gens qui se trouvaient en bas, au cours d'eau : « Nous emmenons des Inkotanyi, soyez donc prêts. » Quand nous sommes arrivées, ils ont fait porter un bois à ma sœur et à moi deux pierres ; ils nous ont ensuite jetées dans l'eau. Deux jours plus tard, en reprenant connaissance, l'eau m'avait jeté dans un champ de cannes à sucre. Ma sœur, elle, avait était éjectée sur l'autre rive. L'eau ne nous avait pas emmenées au même endroit. Après donc ces deux jours, j'étais dans ce champ de cannes à sucre, je ne savais pas où était ma sœur, je ne me rappelais plus que du moment avant qu'on soit jetée à l'eau. Quand je suis sorti de l'eau, j'étais nue, mes habits étaient…mais puisque j'avais de la famille à Runda, il y avait une vieille dame qui était la tante de ma mère sauf que je ne connaissais pas bien sa maison… Le fait est qu'on nous avait jetées dans l'eau au niveau de Iraro puis nous sommes sorties à Kamuhanda, juste au pont qui sépare Kigali de Gitarama.
Marie-Claire: La nuit tombée, je suis montée sur la colline Kagina, il était vers 1heure du matin. Ce n'est que vers 4 heures, juste avant qu'il fasse jour, que je suis arrivée chez de la vieille dame. Quand je suis arrivée, ça faisait longtemps qu'on ne s'était pas vu, j'ai frappé puis on m'a ouvert, je suis entrée, à ma grande surprise, maman était là aussi. J'ai salué tout le monde. Dès qu'elle m'a vue, maman, émue de chagrin, m'a demandé où était ma grande sœur. Je lui ai dit qu'on nous avait jetées dans la rivière ensemble mais qu'après, je n'avais plus ce qu'elle était devenue. Nous sommes restées là ma mère et moi puis deux jours plus tard, ma grande sœur est arrivée. Nous lui avons demandé ce qui s'était passé, elle a dit qu'elle était sortie du cours d'eau au niveau de Nyagatovu. Nous sommes restées toutes les trois dans cette maison. Le mari de la dame n'était pas menacé d'être tué, c'est lui qui nous cachait. Sa femme était la tante de ma mère, elle était également recherchée. Mais elle n'était pas menacée parce qu'elle avait épousée un Hutu. Nous sommes restées cachées toutes les trois, c'était toujours en avril. Puis en mai, le mari de la dame a dit qu'il ne voulait plus risquer sa vie à cause des Inkotanyi, il nous a dit de partir. Il disait aussi que si sa femme croyait qu'il va continuer à nous cacher, elle pouvait partir aussi.
Marie-Claire: Le lendemain matin, nous sommes toutes les trois parties. Nous avons marché jusqu'à Runda puis jusqu'à Gihinga mais quand nous sommes arrivées là, il y avait une barrière, alors on nous a arrêtées. Ils ont ensuite ordonné à maman : « Carte d'identité ! » Mais elle ne l'avait pas. Ils lui ont ensuite demandé : « Qui sont ces enfants ? » Elle a répondu : « Elles ne sont pas à moi, nous ne faisons que marcher ensembles. » Ils ont alors obligé maman de s'asseoir à côté d'un trou. Nous avons refusé de partir, nous sommes restées longtemps à attendre qu'on nous tue mais on ne nous tuait toujours pas. Un moment plus tard, les Interahamwe sont arrivés puis l'un d'eux a dit : « Je connais cette dame, elle n'est pas Tutsi. » C'est comme ça que nous avons survécu ce jour là. Puisque j'avais une marraine à Ruzege, maman a dit qu'il serait mieux qu'on y aille. Quand nous sommes arrivées chez ma marraine, ils ont dit qu'ils ne pouvaient pas nous garder tous de peur d'être également tués. Moi, je pouvais rester mais ma mère et ma grande sœur devaient aller chercher ailleurs. Je suis restée là mais elles sont parties à Nyamiyaga où nous avions de la famille, c'est dans la commune Musambira. Mais quand elles sont arrivées, toute la famille était morte. Ma mère est ensuite directement allée à Kabgayi, ma sœur est restée là à se cacher avec les autres enfants rescapés de cette famille. Quand maman est arrivée à Kabgayi, nous n'avons plus rien su d'elle. On ne sait même pas si elle est morte ou pas…mais elle est certainement morte parce que depuis lors on ne l'a plus revue, personne ne sait où et comment elle est morte.
Marie-Claire: Ma grande sœur est restée avec ces enfants et moi avec ma marraine mais deux jours plus tard, elle m'a dit : - Je ne peux plus continuer à te garder avec moi, ils pourront venir me tuer aussi. Souviens-toi que tu es venue ici avec ta mère et ta sœur. Elles sont parties et je crois que le mieux que tu peux faire est de les suivre ! - Mais je ne sais quel chemin elles ont emprunté…lui dis-je. - Je me fiche de tout ça ! que tu vives ou que tu meurs, je ne sais pas… Le lendemain matin, je ne pouvais pas bien marcher à cause de la plaie au genou due au coup de machette que j'avais reçu. Le matin, il pleuvait, je suis partie, toute seule je me suis ensuite demandée où j'allais. Je ne savais pas où se trouvait ma mère, ma sœur non plus, mes frères n'en parlons pas puisque la dernière fois que je les avais vus, c'était lorsqu'on sortait de la maison. Je me suis décidée à repartir à Runda où nous étions quand la guerre avait commencé. Quand j'y suis arrivée, le vieux ne voulait aucune implication dans le Génocide mais ses enfants étaient gentils. Ils lui ont dit : « C'est une petite fille, personne ne lui demandera la carte d'identité. C'est quoi ton problème ? Garde-la jusqu'à ce que la guerre finisse et si jamais les Interahamwe venaient, dis-leur que c'est ta petite fille. »
Marie-Claire: Je suis restée là mais je ne savais pas où étaient passés ceux avec qui j'étais. La guerre a continué puis vers le mois de juin, les balles crépitaient dans tous les sens, les Inkotanyi étaient à Runda. Tout le monde a fui, je ne pouvais pas rester dans la maison toute seule. Nous avons fui, nous sommes passés par Taba, chez nous, c'était juste en face de Runda, nous avons continué, puis arrivés à Kanyinya, il y avait une barrière. A la barrière, les gens qui l'avaient montée scrutaient nos mains puis quand mon tour est arrivé, ils m'ont demandé : « Tu es d'où ? » Je leur ai menti, je leur ai dit de faux noms de parents, ils m'ont laissée partir. Nous avons continué jusqu'à Nyabikenke, jusqu'à Bulinga, nous avons contourné partout puis quand nous sommes arrivés à Gisenyi, nous sommes revenus. La guerre semblait se calmer.
Marie-Claire: Nous sommes retournés… je suis retournée à Runda, où la guerre m'avait trouvé. J'étais seule, et je suis donc retournée à Runda, la guerre semblait être terminée. La vieille dame [la tante de maman] était en vie mais le vieil homme était mort. Nous sommes allés camper à Ruyenzi. Chaque jour, j'espérais voir quelqu'un de la famille venir mais personne ne venait. J'étais là avec ces gens là. En août 1994, nous étions allés à la messe, quand nous sommes revenus, ma sœur était là, c'était un vrai miracle ! Avant de la saluer, je lui ai demandé : - C'est toi ? Tu es en vie ? - C'est moi ! - Non ! Ou suis-je entrain de saluer un esprit ? - C'est moi, ne t'inquiète pas ! - Tu étais où durant tout ce temps ? - J'étais à Musambira, je me cachais avec les enfants de la famille élargie qui avaient survécu. Ensuite nous sommes allés au Zaïre [Congo actue] puis nous sommes revenues.
Marie-Claire: Nous sommes restées à attendre la venue de maman ou de quelqu'un d'autre de la famille mais personne ne venait. Jusqu'à présent, nous ne savons pas où et comment les gens de la famille sont morts, à part mon père qui a été tué à un petit centre où il avait été emmené.
Marie-Claire: A la fin de la guerre, d'août 1994 en janvier 1995, je suis restée là, à cet endroit où j'avais survécu. J'étais toujours avec ma sœur puis il est arrivé un moment où on nous avait ‘colonisées' là où on n'était. On ne voulait plus qu'on reparte à l'école. Au fait quand la guerre a éclaté, j'étais en 4ème primaire. Ma sœur, elle n'était pas trop grande mais assez intelligente. Elle m'a dit : « Jusqu'à quand allons-nous continuer à mener cette vie? » Ces gens voulaient en fait qu'on prenne soin de leurs vaches, qu'on fasse la vaisselle, bref qu'on soit comme des filles de ménage, qu'on travaille pour eux…que ce soit donc ça notre éducation.
Marie-Claire: Ma sœur est allée voir un bourgmestre, rescapé aussi, pour le mettre au courant de la situation que nous vivions. Le bourgmestre lui a répondu : « Mais qu'est-ce que tu veux que je fasse pour vous, vous êtes des enfants, vous ne pouvez pas prendre votre propre maison et vivre seules, comment trouverez-vous à manger ? Vous n'avez personne pour veiller sur vous… » Mais ma sœur lui a dit qu'au lieu de continuer à mener le genre de vie que nous menions, vivre seules était préférable, tant pis pour le reste. Il y avait des maisons appartenant aux Interahamwe, ces derniers étaient en exil, le bourgmestre nous en a donné une, nous avons vécu dedans, j'ai repris l'école. C'était en 1995, mais ma sœur…elle avait trouvé qu'il était impossible qu'on aille à l'école toutes les deux. En 1996, le bourgmestre lui a alors proposé le poste de percepteur, elle a commencé à travailler, ça m'a facilité la poursuite de mes études. En 1997, je commençais l'école secondaire. Ma sœur travaillait toujours, puis en 2000, j'étais en 4ème secondaire, le maire, l'ancien bourgmestre, a été destitué. Un autre l'a remplacé mais ce dernier ne nous connaissait pas, il ne savait donc pas quel genre de vie nous menions. Il a donné l'ordre de chasser du travail toute personne ne possédant pas de diplôme d'études secondaires. Ma sœur a été chassée du travail de ce fait. J'ai eu la chance que le FARG [Fond d'Assistance aux Rescapés du Génocide] venait d'être créé, il me payait les études mais la vie à la maison était difficile.
Marie-Claire: Ce temps là, nous n'habitions pas encore à Kigali mais à Gitarama, au bercail. Quand ma sœur travaillait encore, elle engageait des gens pour cultiver notre champ, elle était encore bien. Quand elle ne travaillait plus, nous vivions des produits de notre champ. Quelques jours plus tard, un ordre stipulant que toute personne devait rendre ce qui ne lui appartenait pas est sorti. On nous a sorti de la maison, la vie est devenue plus compliquée. A cet instant, nous avions l'impression que la terre avait cessé de tourner. Ma sœur a essayé d'approcher le FARG, le FARG a compris la lourdeur de notre problème, puis il a accepté de nous aider avec 20 000Frw chaque mois.
Marie-Claire: En 2001, on venait juste de recevoir l'argent venant de FARG, j'étais en 5ème secondaire…ma sœur commençait à se rendre compte du fait que sa vie se détériorait de plus en plus. Quand la guerre a commencé, elle était en 2ème secondaire, elle s'est décidée à chercher un moyen pour rentrer à l'école, vu la façon dont le FARG nous aidait. Elle s'est cherché une école, le FARG l'a aidé puis en 2002, il nous a trouvé une maison d'orphelins dans l'habitat regroupé de Kimironko. Après que nous avons eu cette maison, le FARG a été décentralisé, les aides ont stoppé. Entre temps, j'avais terminé mes études secondaires…récemment, j'ai eu un emploi temporaire à IBUKA, je l'ai fait, l'argent nous a aidées, ma sœur en a profité pour aller à l'école. Mais après un temps, le job s'est arrêté, la vie aussi.
Marie-Claire: Je ne sais comment te décrire la vie qu'on mène, elle est dure c'est tout. Quand tu as un problème, tu le gardes pour toi-même puisque tu ne peux le dire à personne. Ma grande sœur est en 5ème aujourd'hui, moi j'ai eu la chance d'obtenir mon diplôme…mais notre vie est vraiment difficile. Mais je ne désespère pas sauf que pour que la vie continue, il faudra que quelqu'un ait pitié de toi et dise : « Cette enfant est en difficulté, je vais l'aider de telle ou telle manière .» Et quand tu ne trouves pas de bon samaritain….la misère continue.
Marie-Claire: La vie est surtout misérable dans ce temps parce que quand tu n'as pas de source de revenue, personne pour t'assister, personne pour te demander ce qui ne va pas…tu as toujours le sentiment que la vie est loin d'être belle.
Pothin: J'ai quelques petites questions à te poser. Je commencerai par te demander, tu nous as dit qu'on a essayé de vous noyer ta sœur et toi mais que le cours d'eau ne voulait pas de vous. De quel cours d'eau s'agit-il ?
Marie-Claire: C'est Nyabarongo. On nous a noyées ensembles mais nous n'avons pas été éjectées au même endroit. Moi je suis sorti au niveau de Kamuhanda mais elle, elle est sortie au fond à Nyagatovu.
Pothin: Ta grande sœur t'a t-elle raconté son parcours jusqu'à l'endroit où vous vous êtes revue ?
Marie-Claire: Oui, elle avait continué toute la route menant à Shyorongi puis est revenue sur le pont qui sépare Runda de Taba. Elle est ensuite venue chez la vieille dame, la tante de maman.
Pothin: Aurais-tu une idée sur ce que sont devenus des Interahamwe comme Yansoneye, Minani et les autres, surtout que ce dernier t'a frappé au pied avec sa machette. Sont-ils en prison ?
Marie-Claire: Juste après la guerre, nous sommes allés au bercail voir comment l'état de notre parcelle. Quand nous y sommes arrivées, Minani était là. En me voyant, il est mort de peur puis il m'a dit : « Je sais que je t'ai offensée, en te découpant, je ne voulais pas que tu survives…que souhaites-tu que je fasse pour toi ? » Je lui ai répondu : « Puisque tu ne voulais que je vive, il y a des lois pour te punir. » Nous sommes allées l'accuser au secteur. On l'a mis en prison avec sa sœur, elle est toujours emprisonnée mais Minani, lui, est mort en prison.
Pothin: Et les Interahamwe qui ont peut-être tué tes parents ou même tes frères, que sais-tu d'eux ?
Marie-Claire: La première personne que nous avons pu identifier lorsque le premier groupe d'assaut est venu à la maison, c'est Karekezi. C'est lui qui a pris mon père avec lui, il l'a emmené et depuis lors papa n'est plus revenu. Je ne sais pas si c'est lui qui l'a tué ou si ce sont les autres puisqu'ils étaient nombreux…sauf que c'est lui, ce Karekezi, que j'ai pu reconnaître.
Pothin: Est-il en vie ou bien….
Marie-Claire: Il est en vie. Il est en prison. Ce Karekezi a tué beaucoup de gens au point où lorsque quelqu'un lui demande combien de personnes il a tué, il te dit qu'il n'en connaît pas le nombre exact. On l'a remis en liberté parce qu'il a admis ses crimes. Il est chez lui.
Pothin: A mon constat, cela s'est passé dans une juridiction Gacaca ! S'il a admis le crime, a t-il accepté qu'il a tué ces gens ?
Marie-Claire: Ça je n'en sais rien. Tout ce que je sais c'est que quand on lui demande le nombre de personnes qu'il a tué, il répond : « Je ne sais pas mais j'ai tué beaucoup de gens, beaucoup ! »
Pothin: Est-il venu te demander pardon ?
Marie-Claire: Non, jamais.
Pothin: En te basant sur ce que tu viens de dire, que penses-tu de Gacaca ?
Marie-Claire: Ce que je pense de Gacaca c'est que…ces gens ont tué exprès. Dire que quelqu'un vient me demander pardon parce qu'il a tué les miens, je crois qu'il les a tués délibérément de plein gré…il faudrait donc que la justice lui inflige une punition relative à l'intensité du crime commis.
Pothin: Aujourd'hui on parle d'unité et de réconciliation. Personnellement en tant que personne qui a été touché par les événements passés et qui en souffre les conséquences jusqu'à présent, est-ce que tu crois que cette réconciliation peut se faire ? Qu'en penses-tu ?
Marie-Claire: Personnellement, j'ai perdu des gens, aujourd'hui je suis abandonnée…je souhaiterais donc que la personne qui me les a enlevés soit punie pour qu'elle se rende compte du mal qu'elle a fait. Et puis je ne dirais pas que ce criminel soit tué, je ne suis pas bien placé pour le dire même si c'est mon souhait sauf qu'il y a des lois pour ça, la loi doit lui infliger une peine relative à l'intensité de son crime.
Pothin: Quand quelqu'un a traversé des moments aussi pénibles que ceux que tu as vécu et continue à mener une existence difficile, cette personne a quelque chose en particulier. Etre rescapé a quel sens à tes yeux ? Comment l'expliques-tu ?
Marie-Claire: L'expliquer ?
Pothin: Expliquer qu'un rescapé mène tel genre de vie, il a tels problèmes, il se sent de telle façon ; en te référant sur la vie actuelle et tout ce qui se passe, comment tel ou tel problème est-il entrain d'être résolu…
Marie-Claire: En tant que personne qui a vécu le Génocide, il arrive que je compare le présent au passé mais je me rends bien compte que je ne viens de nulle part et je ne vais nulle part non plus. Quand tu comprends ainsi la chose, tu te donnes la paix du cœur parce qu'autrement, tu peux devenir fou, chose qui ferait plaisir à ceux qui ont tué tes proches. Mais quand tu te calmes, personne ne sait à quoi tu penses. Tu attends simplement ce que l'avenir te réserve parce que nous connaissons le passé mais pas le futur. Tu attends ce que te réserve le futur, si ce sont de bonnes choses, tant mieux, sinon, tant pis. Dans la vie, il faut toujours attendre ce qui vient devant.
Pothin: Je voudrais insister sur une chose. Tu es passée par plusieurs sortes de vies, tu as vécu une vie difficile, surtout parce que tu as perdu tes parents. Je voudrais alors te demander si tu te souviens de la vie que tu menais avant la guerre, dans ton enfance. Parles-nous en brièvement.
Marie-Claire: Avant la guerre nous étions 5 enfants à la maison et j'étais la cadette. Nous étions bien puisque nos deux parents avaient du travail et même quand la situation n'était pas bien à l'extérieur, nous n'avions aucun problème. Car il y avait des gens qui veillaient sur nous. Mais après la guerre, je me suis retrouvée seule avec ma grande sœur, nous étions d'ailleurs les cadettes de la famille, tous les autres n'étaient plus là. Après la guerre, il n'y avait personne, pas de famille élargie à laquelle on pouvait confier nos problèmes, ceux qui étaient là ne s'auto suffisaient pas non plus. Comparer la vie d'avant à celle d'aujourd'hui, il y a une très grande différence parce qu'aujourd'hui je peux avoir un problème et le garder pour moi-même. Par exemple, je peux faire deux jours sans manger mais avant je mangeais quand je voulais, à chaque fois que j'en avais envie. Aujourd'hui, je peux même passer trois jours sans manger parce que je n'ai personne à qui le dire. La vie de l'après-guerre est compliquée, elle n'atteint même pas le quart du niveau de celle de l'avant la guerre.
Pothin: Ta sœur doit mener une vie aussi difficile que la tienne ; parle-nous d'elle, quel âge a t-elle ? Quels sont ses projets ?
Marie-Claire: Ma grande sœur n'est pas très âgée, elle est née en 1981 mais sa vie est vraiment…à son âge, elle devrait être en mesure de se débattre mais le fait qu'elle n'ait eu personne pour la soutenir pour qu'elle étudie à temps. C'est comme si sa vie avait fait un bond en arrière puisqu'elle a vu que nous n'étions que deux et que j'étais la plus petite, elle m'a donc laissé la priorité d'aller à l'école. Elle est retournée à l'école que lorsque le FARG a accepté de nous assister chaque mois avec un peu d'argent. Mais avant que le FARG ne soit là, elle se sacrifiait pour que je progresse. Actuellement elle est encore en 5ème secondaire alors qu'en principe, elle devrait avoir déjà terminé si on considère son âge. Quand elle rentre en vacance, à la maison, les difficultés sont les mêmes. Moi, qu'elle avait laissé à la maison, je suis restée sans rien faire, sans emploi…je n'ai personne pour me soutenir pour pouvoir l'aider…quand elle rentre de l'école, elle revient vivre dans la misère.
Pothin: As-tu un message particulier pour les orphelins qui vivent sans tuteurs ? Ou même qui sont sous une tutelle quelconque ? C'est sûr que ces orphelins doivent avoir une façon de se conduire…
Marie-Claire: Ce que je peux leur dire c'est que, la vie qu'ils ont traversée et celle qu'ils endurent aujourd'hui…ils doivent bien se comporter et rendre grâce pour tous ceux qu'ils arrivent à obtenir. Qu'ils ne se laissent pas envahir par la convoitise parce que sinon il peut en découler de très mauvaises choses ! Ils doivent donc être satisfaits d'être qui ils sont, qu'ils soient dans une famille ou seuls…au fait il arrive que tu sois dans une famille mais que cette dernière te maltraite au lieu d'être dans de bonnes conditions. Quand quelqu'un n'arrive pas à endurer tout ça, c'est alors que tu entends dire que l'enfant de tel a complètement changé de mœurs, et les conséquences de ces changements sont souvent des maladies. Le conseil que je peux lui donner est de tout considérer de façon positive, que ce soit une bonne ou une mauvaise chose, tout ça en vue de préparer un meilleur avenir.

Identifier mike:	kmc00063/kmc00063_vid1
Title:	Oral Testimony Of UMULISA Marie Claire
Description:	The oral testimony of UMULISA Marie Claire, a survivor of the Genocide Against the Tutsi, recorded by the Kigali Genocide Memorial in Kigali, Rwanda. The testimony discusses early memories of childhood and family, discrimination and persecution of Tutsis before the Genocide, the worst atrocities during the Genocide, suffering and witnessing human rights abuses, surviving the Genocide, and life after the Genocide. The testimony is given in Kinyarwanda with translations available in English and French.
Media format:	mini-DV tape
Language:	kin

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Oral Testimony Of UMULISA Marie Claire

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Continues with Part 2 of the Oral Testimony of UMULISA Marie Claire.