Oral Testimony of RWANGOMBWA J. Chrysostome
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- RWANGOMBWA J Crysostome
- King MUSINGA
- King MUTARA
- Sharangabo
- King RWABUGILI
- Bisangwa
- Bigombituri
- Mburamatare
- Mortard
- Kayihura
- Segore
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- Sindibona
- Pole Pole Mukwiye
- Logiste
- Pridom
- General Yanses
- Kayihura, Mungarurire, Rwangombwa
- Dejemepu
Table of Contents
- Introduction
- My participation in history
- History of Rwanda
- Rwandan Society Before Colonialism
- Belgian Colonialism
- Discrimination and Social Revolution
- Schooling During Colonialism
- The Relationship Between the King and the People
- Colonialism
- Western Religion
- National High Council in 1953
- Total Impunity and Systematic Killings
- The Cause and Start of the Conflict
- Economical vision
- Future of the Country
View Topics
- General History
- Destroying the Different Governors of Rwanda
- Social and Cultural Life Pre-Colonialism
- Colonial Period in Rwanda
- Germany Colonialism in Rwanda
- Belgian Colonialism in Rwanda
- Justice During That Period
- The Relationship Between Monarchy and the People
- Unjust Colonialism System
- Colonial Manipulation of Schools
- Government and Political Life during Colonial Period
- The Source of Misunderstanding Between King MUSINGA and the Belgian Colonialists
- Legislative Meetings
- King MUTARA Legislative Period
- Death of King RUDAHIGWA and his Burial
- The Replacement of King's Authority by Colonizer, Rogiste
- The Power and Injustice of the Colonialists
- Rwandan Political Parties and Movements
- Rwandan National Union
- PARMEHUTU
- APROSOMA
- RADEUR
- The Hope for the Future of Rwanda
- Country Economic Development
- The Hope for a Better Generation
- Peace building
- Gacaca Courts Evaluation
- Memorial Centers and Supporting the Survivors
- Treatment of Rwanda's Heroes
- Message to All
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Ubuhamya bwanditse
- Rwangombwa: Nabibabwiye,Umunyarwanda yabanaga nundi neza,basangiye igihugu cyabo,no mu bikorwa, hanyuma rero nakubwiye ko abazungu basanze mbere ya ya reforme ya Mortan,ihindura amategeko kavukire,umutware w'umututsi,w'umukenke,nu w'umuhutu umutware w'ubutaka,nu w'ingabo, abahutu n'abatutsi bahuriragamo.les milices,iyo niyo yari organisation ya Kinyarwanda umuzungu yaje asanga.
- Rwangombwa: Hari agatabo twanditse mushobora kuzabibonamo, amazina y'abayobozi bicyo gihe babahutu n'abatutsi, ni niba ntiba ntibeshye abahutu bari bageze kuri mirongo itanu na bane, n'amazina nabo bayoboraga. naya abatutsi n'amazina naho bayoboraga.aho za reforme rero n'amategeko y'abazungu aziye, hataho, kuburizamo umwe bashyiraho undi, babiteguye kare ?ndakubwira ko mu mwaka yaaa igihumbi kimwe magana cyenda namirongo itanu na karindwi n'umunani, abayobozi ba bahutu bari basigaye mubutegetsi kavukire bari mbarwa ?ariko sibo babiteye ?byatewe n'amategeko y'abazungu niyo yabiteganyaga.yewe n'ishuri ryaAstrida ari naryo nizemo ryari rifitemo uruhare ? uwabaga atari umwana w'umutware, ntiyajyaga muri section administrative ?ntiwavuga rero ko ari abyobozi ba kavukire babitegetse ?byabaga byumvikanweho na Gouverneur w'uRwanda n'uBurundi ?abayobozi b''amashuri kugezaa muri mirongo itanu na gatatu bari abapadiri bayihariye, kugeza igihe noneho tubona ko bikabije, dusaba leta mbiligi ko yatuha n'amashuri Laique.kugirango ufite ibyaha byi mu bicumuro by'amadini abana be be kujya babizira ?ubwo noneho bashyiraho amashuri Laique ya leta.
- Rwangombwa: Ntabuyobozi kavukire bwari bufite ijambo mu bya'amashuri ? bamaze ku desequilibra neza societe ne bayibogamishije, nibwo batangiye guteranya bahutu n'abatutsi ngo barihariye ? kandi atari bo babigengaga, sinzi ko hari abo twabiganiriye, muri mirongo itanu n'umunani mu kwezi kwa munani, induru imaze kuba nyinshi, za manifeste za bahutu zimaze gushyirwa ahagaragara ko abatutsi babaryamiye iyo nama y'ubuyobozi bwariho, yemeye kwegura noneho uRwanda rukazitorera, byabaye ari ukugirango bahoshe induru yariho ? ntibyamamajwe cyane ngo bivugwe kuko byari byihishe icyari kigenderewe.
- Rwangombwa: Mu nama nkuru y' igihugu muri mirongo itanu n'umunani haje une delegation ya Bakayibanda ibyo bise manifeste y'abahutu, boherezaa ee mu nama nkuru y'igihugu tubasaba gutoranyamo baje ari benshi barenze mirongo itatu tubasaba kwitoramo abantu umunani ,natwe tu munama tugashyiramo umunani tukajya gucoca ibibazo hamwe,tukareba umuti watangwa, tukabikora,muri uwo munani wo mu nama nkuru y'igihugu nawo nari nkurimo ,tukabereke tubabwira tuti rero kubabwira uko ibintu bimeze nikibitera, murabishushanyamo no kwiburanya,reka tubahamagarire abazungu n'abapadiri babi babiteye.tubahamagarira inspecteur w'amashuri w'umupadiri,tuduhamagara uwu muzungu Ibujumbura ,spekman,tubahamagarira uwu buyobozi bwa kavukire,abo bitaga les ayents mu les affaires indigenes,witwa Guillome.twi tuti ngaba nimubabaze uko amategeko ateye n'igitumye musigaye muri hanze ?mutari mu buyobozi,ndetse tugera ku kubyemezo tuti rero ibyabaye byarabaye,mufite abize ibifaransa,mufite ni mutange za ,kandidature ,noneho mu gihe kitari kirekire babashyirireho amashuri ya za accelerateur,noneho musabe za nomination zabo bage mu buyobozi nkabandi,aho batashye muri college y ‘i Kigali kwa Irinon,babaza aho imirimo yacu igeze bakababwira ibyo twaganiriye naho tubigejeje,naho tubigejeje bajya kubabwira bati twabatumye kutumvikana ntiba ntitwabatumye kujya kumvikana ,mu ijambo rimwe icyo bashakaga ni conflitation !ntabwo ari ukumvikana babatumye babatumye kutumvikana none muragenda muri za solution.
- Rwangombwa: Ibyo rero ibyo bitabo na nizo nama aho byagannye ntuhambaze, ariko byarabaye wenda nuwabishakisha ababitwaye ni babandi bashakaga nyine ko ibi biza kuba !ubwumvikane buke ! ariko byari bihari si inkuru mbarirano ndababwira jye ko nari mpari, maze rero nyirinkota nuyifashe akarumya uwashakaga iyo ntambara n'ubwumvikane buke yari wa Mukoroni kandi impamvu ze zirumvikana nozo, n'inyungu ze ariko ntakishyire hariya ngo ni umutagatifu, ibyo ntitubyemeranyaho ! za commission za droit de l'homme ubu zateye icyo gihe zari he ? abantu bapfaga izo commission ziri he ? ariko wabona iibyo bikoza ubu ukagirango ni Abamarayika !ntabwo bareba retour !hari ibindi washakaga kumbaza ariko ibyo tubyumvikaneho ?byarabaye iyo delegation yansanze iNyanza twaganiriye nayo nkubwiye ko nari nyirimo !nabo ,ibyo bita nabyo abakuru abagaragu bakuru b'ibwaami byaravuzwe biranandikwa icyo bavuze nuko bavugaga ngo ntacyo abahutu n'abatutsi bapfana no kurugamba ngo babaye ibigwari n'umwami yabategetse kuzikorera nijoro bagakorera umututsi ku manywa ibyo bintu byose ni n'ibihimbano n'ibintu byanditswe munzira ziteranya,abo bagaragu bakuru b'ibwami babayeho,n'umuzungu wabandikishije iyo document n'uwitwa Kirish yari umujyanama w'umwami ,buri muzehe,bu buri musaza yatangaga igihumbi igihumbi ngo yifungura bje kubivuga hanyuma,ntiwaca inzira zose ushaka guteranya ntuzigereho ? kandi nababwiye ko ibi mbabwira nabisubiramo, si ibitekerano, nibyo nari nibereyemo, n'ibintu byagenderewe, guteranya umunyarwanda kuko basanze akomeye mu muco, akomeyeee muri organisation, nabo bivuyemo, mbere barabyanditse basanze ari ii une nation ? yigenga ?ifite amategeko ikoreraho ? ariko icyo bagendereye ba bashyizwe bakigeraho, kuko bari bafite des moyens ? bari bafite ibikoresho, bari bafite ubushobozi.
- Martin: Mbese ku kijyanye e n'iki cyatumye nyuma yuko bakoresheje izo stategies zose kugirango babashe kuki abanyarwanda bo babaye convencu gute kuburyo hasigaye partie imwe yagumye insimbaraye kuri gahunda nyayo ariko indi ikaburirwamo aa ii byagenze gute kubera iki byagenze gutyo ?
- Rwangombwa Hari imbaraga zakoreshejwe hari n'ibiguzi ?, ibuguzi se wowe ni ni ni bakubwiye ko binanirwa n'iki ?ni ni warangije kugura ukuri kwawe, kandii birimo n'ubushobozi birimo n'icyingufu ? yenda hariho ababyanze, baje kubizirz tutazi ?ariko byabayeho ? nta abahutu se babayeho babyanga bapfuye ?cg babifungiwe bakabizira ? abitwa ba Kajangwe urabazi ? nuwa hariya iGahini ?hari n'abandi ?bagiye bagira bati ibi bintu mubyemereye iki ?ee ubukoroni n'ibintu mutabayemo ntabwo ari systeme yo kuvugwa !ni ni systeme ya injustice cyane,
- Martin: Ariko kiriya kintu cyo kuvanaho abatware b'abahutu no gushyiraho ibintu by'amashuri ….
- Rwangombwa: Y'abana babatware !!
- Martin: Y'abana ba batware buriya mwebwe, nta mwabonaga nta nta kibazo bizatera ?
- Rwangombwa: Ukuyeho ko twari bato, ndakwihaho nk'urugero ;ubwanjye narangije ecole ecole secondaire warayirangizaga rero mbere yo kujya muri za section z'abana ba batware n'ibindi i Butare hari iya Abaganga,hariyo Abahinzi,hari iya Aborozi,hakaba niyaa secretaria,ni ya abana ba batware,jye nagiye gusaba umukuru w'ishuri section medicale y ‘abaganga, aranyangira umukuru w'ishuri ampa icyumweru cyo gutekereza sinazabona icyo mbwira so, cg Resident uri mwene shefu ugomba kujya muri section administratif,icyumweru cyarashize nsubiyeyo mbimubwiye ati nta kindi gisigaye noneho ndakwirukana ?mbijyamo ku ntabishaka.tekereza rero kujya mu kintu utashakaga ngo kuko amategeko ariko akigena icyaje kundamira,icyaje ku kunkiza nuko muri la vie prot pratique naje kubikunda ?iyo ntaza kubikunda se ?ubuzima bwanjye bwose nabaga miserable !ariko niko babishakaga itegeko se urwana naryo ? ubwo se najyaga guhitamo gutaha cg gukomezaa aho bangenera ? kandi rero nabo basaza ba batubyaye umenye ko bo bararihaga. ii kuri za section zindi abazijyagamo, abana moyens harihaga leta, naho rero abo bayobozi bicyo gihe nibo barihiraga amashuri y'abana babo ?bigatuma basa naho babigira droit zabo, ariko urabyumva hari division ?naho byatangiriye ! wabaga uri umututsi ukajya muri section y'ubworozi, waba uri umwana w'umuhinzi ukajya muri section agricole, waba ufite amanota ya science n'iki ukajya bose kwa bya byararushyaga ukajya kuba umuganga, nuko ba Binagwaho babijyiyemo ? ariko byararangiye, tuvuge n'umwana w'umututsi moyen washatse kujya muri section administratif ntibamwemereraga ?icyo gihe se wabikorera iki ? si wowe wabigenaga nuko byaru biri. Ariko ndababwira ko mushobora kwi controlinga, mukabaza n'abandi nuko byari biri !kandi sitwe twenyine twari tubihuriyemo, n'i BURUNDI, ishuri ry' Ibutare ryari both, ee irya Rwanda Urundi, na none aba abaganwa bakaba aribo bajya nuri iyo section ? wabishaka utabishaka.
- Rwangombwa: Erega ibi tubabwira n'amateka kuko bizajya bibafasha gusobanukirwa no kuba mwabisobanurira n'abandi ! umukoroni ntiyajyaga impaka, umukoroni c'est impose, yishyiriragaho aye mategeko, udashobora ukuyahindura ? wamugira ute ? nababwiye ko kuva Bruxelle i Bujumbura ahahi ahitirirwaga ko ari ha ku ruhande harya les provilles Kinshasa niko byose byarangiriraga i Bujumbura ? kuko vice gouvernement ya yay'u Rwanda n' uBurundi niho yari ihagaze,habaga nubwo tu umaze kujya muri ayo ma nama habaga nubwo habaho ikibazo gikomeye,delegation y'inama nkuru y'igihugu igaturuka i Nyanza indi igaturuka iGitega tukajya ku kubisobanura ,i Bujumbura .tuti ibi uko bigaragara izo nama ahubwo zacu mwambaza ubushobozi zari zifite n'ubuhe ?uravuga uti inama nkuru y'igihugu,inama nkuru ya territoire inama nkuru ya sheve ubushobozi mwari mufite n'ubuhe ?bwari ubushobozi pure et simple consultatif.kutubaza icyo dutekereza ?bashaka bagatena compte yacu cg ntibabitene,ariko ubundi bikaba prudent ko bakwemeranya icyo inama ivuze,ariko bitabyemeranyije ntabwo byari condition ?ndibuka tujya i Burundi bashaka kutunyaga ikawa ,ngo kuko fluctuation za marche none igiciro kiri hejuru umwaka utaha kikajya hasi,rero n'ibintu bigirira nabi umuturage noneho bagashaka gushyiraho une caisse,ariko yatwarwa na colonie,hu ikawa niya abaturage b'uRwanda na u Burundi none kandi Ababiligi bagiye kuyitwarira ?tubahaye proposition babura uko babigira ?tuti ese igihugu gishyizemo ibi ibice mirongo itanu eeh na leta y'Ababiligi igashyiraho mirongo itanu mukareberera uwo muhinzi hari icyo bitwaye ? urumva ko eeh ii proposition iri resonable? Eh barabireba basanga bikabije kubicaho ? ariko ubundi iyo bagira bati ntitubyemeza twajyaga gukora iki se ?ariko eee cette fois la batennye compte yabyo eeh icyo bashakaga turakibavutsa, iyaa ariko ubundi ntabwo byari condition habaga ubwo babyera, hakaba nubwo babihakana ?
- Rwangombwa: Ubundi sinibuka ikindi nabwo twagiye mu na nama ya vice gouvernement generale kabiri, delegation yii inama nkuru y'Inyanza, tugahura ni y' iBurundi tukajya ku discuta nabo, ariko aho ni mu myaka ya nyuma, iyo byagiye nabo babona bimwe bibakoza isoni bakagenda bagabanya ariko finale bi turananiranwa.
- Martin: Ariko buriya iyo…….. buriya bajya kuvanaho abatware ba bahutu no gushyiraho ishuri rigomba kwigwaho abana babatware, byari ibintu byumvikana ko buriya………
- Rwangombwa: Ntibyaziye igihe kimwe.
- Martin: Ntabwo byaziye igihe kimwe ?
- Rwangombwa: Uuuuuu ?byaje muri makumyabiri na gatandatu, la groupe scolaire yatangiyeee iya byarakurikiranye,all right,nibyo kuko ishuri ry'i Butare ryatangiye muri makumyabiri na karindwi,ariko ibyo hari hari hakiri imbere nki imyaka cumi kugirango bazagere muri section ?ariko ibintu bya plani ntiwabimenya ba bo bari bazi ibyo bakora ?bo bari bazi ibyo bakora,ariko kimwe mu byaciye ibintu ba division sociale eeh ufu ririya shuri ry'ibutare ryarimo,ryarimo cyane,ii iyo ni ni ikintu u uzi gushishoza wabona hariya niho ba eeh bashoboreye mu mubintu biri moderne,n'amashuri wifiye diplôme wowe urabyemerewe ariko undi ntabyemerewe !hariya habaye ikosa cyane ? habaye ikosa kandi rigenderewe ? ariko bene kurikora wabagira ute se ? babitwaye buhoro, buhoro, ariko bagera kubyo bashaka ?
- Martin: Nari ngiye kukubaza nti niba haragombaga kwiga umwana w'umutware muri ririya shuri kandi
- Rwangombwa: Ni section naho ishuri ryari rusange.
- Martin: Eee, muri sections administratives ?
- Rwangombwa: Eeeee !
- Martin: Kandi abatware b'abahutu bakaba barabavanyeho ? ngirango byumvikane ko nta mwana w'umuhutu wari bwige koko ?ese nta mutware w'umuhutu wari ukiriho ?
- Rwangombwa: Wari ukiriho ?
- Martin: Noneho njye nkavuga nti ese ibyo aribyo byose umukoroni buriya hari ikintu yari agendereye, bihita byunvikana ko ibyo ari byose hashobora kuba hariho ikintu cyo guteranya abahutu n'abatutsi ?
- Rwangombwa: Right !
- Martin: Mwebwe icyo gihe icyo kintu ndagirango aha aha hanga unsobanurire icyo ntabwo navuga ngo wenda umukoroni yari yapanze ko bigomba kuzagenda gutya, ariko birashoboka ?
- Rwangombwa: Ta Da ni ni !
- Martin: Ese mu byukuri umukoroni icyo yari yagendereye icyo kintu cyaje kuba cyo ? mwebwe mwari muri hariya byaje guteranya koko abahutu n'abatutsi kuba abana babo bataragiye kwiga muri ririya shuri mwabitubwiraho iki ?
- Rwangombwa: Eee, ni ni nibyo koko icyari kigenderewe cyagezweho ! kuko fu kereka uri impumyi niho utarora? cyagezweho koko, cyagezweho kuko icyo bashaka ni n'uguteranya wa muhutu n'umututsi, munzira z'ubushobozi, buyobora igihugu cye ! babigezeho !ariko aho tu ti rero namwe ntimusobanukirwa kuko ntimwari mu system !ni hahandi ugira uti se ? ubutegetsi ari ubw'umwami, ari n'ubwaba bayobozi bandi ba bari bamwegereje babikoreye iki ngo bye kuba ? ee icyo ni ee ikibazo ee kiri logique !ariko aho rero iyo nkubwiye nti ntabushobozi na buto bwo kugira icyo tubiko twabikorera, ntibibaho !ugira uti hariya hariho ikicyoma ee c'est trop !ntabwo ni ii nti ntiwabisobanukirwa ? ntiwabisobanukirwa, ntiwabisobanukirwa kuko igihe buriya ni umucamanza nyawe, ntabwirengagize bwari buhari, surtout kuri Musinga eko kuri Mutara ariko se Mutara adafite ibyo abikorera ise sibyo bamujijije se ?cg we et finalement sicyo yaje kuzira ?kutemeranya nabo ?
- Martin: Ariko imbarutso, imbarutso yo kugirango Mutara ashwane n'abazungu ya yakomotse kuki ? kuko nubundi ntibumvikanaga birumvikana ko yatangiye wenda bumvikana bakimushyiraho, ariko bigera aho noneho ag
- Rwangombwa: No ( )
- Martin: Ariko uti byageze aho biranga byatewe ni….
- Rwangombwa: Uti bya byatewe n'iki ?sinakubwira ngo niwe wenyine, yenda nanjye nundi yaba yari abifitemo, igihe cyarageze hataho kubaza aba ba ba ababiligi ibyo bi ibyo mwumva twisee mise au point !mise au point niyo yabaye imbarutso, yi y'bintu byinshi byahindutse muri iki gihugu, kubaza ababiligi uti muratuyobora mutuganisha he ?mu muyo iyo aho mutuganisha se nibizatwara igihe kingana iki ? bashushwe nabakubiswe n'inkuba ? mu byukuri mise au point nicyo yavugaga ?nimuduhe un programu y'ibyo mutugenera muzadukorera .ubwigenge tuzabugezwaho ryari ? tuzagera ryari ku bwi ubucagase ? ni iyihe programu y' economie y'igihugu mu mutwereka ?ee ese tuzabona universite ryari ?niba dutekereza kwigenga abazafata releve azaba ari (inzozi) gusa ?nta mashuri dufite ?nta universite dufite ? niyo bari batwemereye college ya hariya Gatagara yahariya i Gatagara bari bamaze guhakanira Rudahigwa bati birangiriye aha !ibyo byose rero ibyo bibazo byatumye bibaza ,ikindi rero burya mutajya mu menya uRwanda rwaba rwarazize a mon a vue !twari igikubitisho cya Kongo, niba aba bantu bageze ku bwigenge iruhande,Kongo yacu,Kongo Mbiligi,dufitemo nibyo ducukura dufitemo amafayida nyamafayida !niba u Rwanda rubonye independance,kuko hari nation unis yitwa ngo turi indagizo zabo zimara buri imyaka itatu boherezaga delegues baz kureba aho ngo tugejeje !niba babubonye Kongo yacu izaduhinduka ! twariii skep god non ? eeh ! icyo kintu nacyo ntabwo abantu benshi bazi icyo ari icyo ?kuba urwitwazo ngo tutaba scandard kuri Kongo.
- Rwangombwa: Ni byinshi ! ni byinshi twagiye tugwamo,ariko icyo nababwira cyo ni icyerekeye urwa uRwanda ubwarwo,ntacyo ubuyobozi kavukire,nibwira bwirengagije,ahubwo bwaradumbaguje kugirango busobanure ibibazo byarwo,eee,ariko naya affaire ku bantu batari beza na gato !kandi niyo stysteme,stysteme y'ubukoroni yose iyo iva ikagera nicyo gituma kuyivamo bigomba intambara,bigomba sacrifice,bigomba umubabaro,ahubwo muraragure rwe mu mweze bye kuzagaruka kuko nubu amarere abakoroni ba bari bafite nubu inda ni mbi ? inda zabo ziratyaye cyane, ntimuzagwe mu ruzi murwita ikiziba mwibwira ngo byararangiye.
- Martin: Hari ikintu nibaza nka buriya muri icyo gihe ubwo butegetsi mwari mu nama nkuru bwa bwari buteye bute…….. nshatse kuvuga mwakoranagamute n'umwami ?mubyo mwamubwiraga mubyo mwamugiragamo inama cg se mwakoranaga mute nabo ngabo nibaza ko hari ukuntu
- Rwangombwa: Tubi ee tu, eeeee
- Martin: Mwihereraga, mu kanya mukagira ibyo mukora n'ukuntu mwahuraga nabo ese…..
- Rwangombwa: Oya inama ,inama ntibazakubeshye inama n'inama ,harimo,yenda abo batemeranya,hakabamo abo memeranya,ndaza kubibahamo urugero,inama ya mbere ligislature ya mbere,cinquante deux, cinquante six mirongo itanu na gatandatu,mirongo itanu na karindwi, aana , mirongo itanu na gatatu na mirongo itanu naa gatandatu,abayijyiyemo bose,bari abo bitaga les cobtes bati naka uriya n'umugabo,naka uriya afite ibitekerezo,naka uriya yagiraa icyo ayimarira,ugasangamo ;abapadiri,ugasangamo abapasitoro,ugasangamo abantu bize,ariko babaye nomme.iyo nama yambere le legislature ya mbere yavuyemo ibintu byiza cyane !yavuze ko noneho,inama itaha kuva hasi kugera hejuru,bazitorera abayigira,iyo ni legislature ya kabiri,ikindi ki cyavuyemo cyiza,nta nama burya itagira aba oppossants bagira bate, nkanswe iya abanyarwanda mu gihe cy'ubukoroni ba ba harimo abararikano,basanze bizambika ibara umwami,ugasanga abaye mele mu mpaka ,ugasanga ndetse nibishyirwa mu majwi hari aho bamushyira muri manorites,bikaba atari byiza.
- Rwangombwa: Bemeza ko batora vice president w'inama, kuko umwami ubundi niwe wagombaga kuyiyobora? bati noneho nimutore vice president abe ariwe uzajya ayiyobora ikindi, we ajye aza ayifungura, agaruke ayifunga, ariko ye kujya muri debeth, urabyumva ? mwari mumbajije ngo umwami yayiboraga ate ?byagendaga bite ?se sho tubikurije ?noneho,igize kwitorera,igize kwishyiriraho umuyobozi,nibuka ubwo twatoye Kayihura muri legislature ya kabiri,nari maze kugeramo d'alleur umwami akaza ayifungura ,akazongera akagaruka ayifunga,hagati twari dufite abakarani babiri b'inama bagafata za note n'ibindi bakajya bamushyira au courant mu biro bye bati dore aho inama igejeje ,dore ibibazo itreta,ibyifashemo itya,ariko akaba atemerewe kuza muri debethe zacu,ibyo niko byagenze rero,relation ship ,zacu nazo mu ntuza kuko harimo abari pour kuri we,harimo abarii abatemeranya nawe,harimo nabitwaga ba progresiste ba b'amajyambere,barimo ba babona evolution y'ibintu aho bigenda bigana. Kandi mu buryo budashenye culture yabo, kuko hariho byinshi bigomba guhinduka ?bijyanye n'amategeko, bijyanye n'amajyambere, nkubu nti wabajie inama nkuru y'igihugu uti se ko umwami yariho byitwa ko ayobora igihugu, kandi afite n'abiru, donc bariya baaa banyamabanga b'ibwami bakomeye ! a quoi ? nk'ubwiru bwari bushingiye kuki ? byariii bwari ubuhanga buteye bute ? nakubwira nti nubwo nari mu nama nkuru y'Igihugu ariko ubwo buyobozi, byari ibintu tradution ? nti tubizi.
- Rwangombwa: Ariko urumva ko ibintu bitagombaga kuguma bityo ? igihe cyajyaga kuzagera nta gushira isoni ntaki, tukabaza nk'umwami tuti ubwiru ubwumva ute ?ubwiru bushi ubwiru bushingiye kuki ?kuko byari muri preogatives zacu nk'abantu responsables, nta kuntu tutavuze ngo nukumena amabanga twagira ubumenyi bwabyo cg abashinzwe kuba basubiza kuko ibi bintu biri mysterias nti nti ntibyemewe muri iki gihe ?hariho abatekereza batyo ? kandi rero ntubibujijwe n'ibintu byanyu ?ariko officielement ubwiru bwa bwaciwe muri mille neuf cent treinte treinte un, bakuraho Musinga, nibwo baaa bakuyeho nabitwa ba G ashamura ariko mu rwihisho bwarakomeje ! nizo za imfluence zari zihari ? n'ingoma zi'ingabe zari ziriho nii ibyo byariho.
- Rwangombwa: Ariko byagombaga kugenda buhoro buhoro, buga bigahindukana n'igihe ?nkuko ubuhake bwagezaho bukavaho ? nkuko agahato ka k'imirimo k'imirimo ka byaa byavuyeho ?ibyo n'ibintu nti wabimbwiye icyo gihe ngo ni ni ni mbi mbe mbe mbihe amanota ? nanjye ndemera ko biba nte ? kubana n'ikintu utazi icyo ari icyo ? ariko n'ibintu bya bene byo ?byagombaga guhinduka igihe kigeze.
- Martin: None se nk'ibyemezo byafatirwaga muri iyo nama nkuru y'igihugu cg byakirwaga gute n'abakoroni cg sen aba………..
- Rwangombwa: Iyaaa ! nababwiye ubushobozi bwiyo nama, yari ugutanga ibitekerezo n'ibyifuzo, twagira amahirwe bakabitwemerera tutayagira bakaduhakanira, nabahaye n'urugero nk' icyo cyifuzo cyambura ubuyobozi directe umwami kuko bisanga byamukoza isoni yagira hari ubwo byamukoza isoni, cyabaye icyifuzo kiba accepte ! baracyemera ?noneho bituma twitorera vice president, ariko se iyo batatwemerera ?byakomezaga nkuko biri ? inama nkuru y'igihugu yemeye ko nk'urukiko yari ahagarariye iyo habaga imanza izo bitaga requisation, hari icyo azivugwaho ? ari iziburanwa n'abanzi be, cg z'iki ? icyo gihe yajyaga kande yajyaga iruhande urukiko rugapresidetwa na resident pasesseur umwe akaba umutware mukuru undi akaba umuto, ibyo byari biteganyije, ariko mu mategeko y'abakoroni, naho ubushobozi bw'inamankuru y'igihugu ntibazakubeshye byari ugutanga ibyifuzo reves, bigatanga n'ibitekerezo cy'icyo batekereza kubyo babajijwe !ariko ntaaa ntabwo byari inama nkiyi ya parlement !ifata ibyemezo ? nta byemezo twari dufite ? twashoboraga gufata ?ntabwo byari muri atributions zayo.
- yves: Hari ikintu njya njya nibaza ku gihe cya cya Rudahigwa akiyobora ha hari abo twumva mu mateka nka na Kayibanda, bari bafite ubushobozi bo icyo gihe bari bari he ?cg bari baratangiye kuzana ibitekerezo byabo……..
- Rwangombwa: Huuu,byari byaratangiye bimwe iyaa,ka Kayibanda yatangiriye aha iKigali,ari umwalimu muri institut leo classe, bukeye atwarwa n'umupadiri witwa Dejemepu, amujyana iKabwayi muri Kinyamateka muri mirongo itanu niba ari na gatatu na kane, bamujyana mu Bubuligi mu masomo ya syndicalisme,ibyo kwiga ibya syndicat n'umuntu bateguraga.hanyuma agaruka muri kinyamateka ,igihee cya ya delegation nigeze kubabwira yazaga iNyanza,ka Kayibanda nti yayijemo,hajemo ,Murindahabi,hazamoo Sentama,hazamoo Kariyopi,eee na Gitera,Gitera we yaraje ari le deux ee umunsi wa kabiri yari muri babandi nabo batoranya ibibazo,e ndababwira ibintu nzi ? ariko Kayibanda we bari baratangiye kumutegura ?ibintu ibintu byari byari byigitse, ahubwo Gitera yari ari muri organisation ikomeye ?
- Martin: Wari urimo udusobanirira ibya kayibanda
- Rwangombwa: Iyaa, yagiye muri formation
- Martin: Wari ugeze i Nyanza ahoba Gitera bari baje muri ya nama….
- Rwangombwa: Huuu, huuu, ntabwo yari yaje, iyaaa !!! n'ibintu byaje buhoro buhoro ariko biteguye, kandi mu byukuri ubuyobozi kavukire nta kintu bashoboraga kubikorera on asubit le le reveur ariko nta kintu n'abantu bakwigaya nta nicyo twagombaga kugerageza kitakozwe ariko uuu ! nigeze kubabwira ko habaga ubwo bababwira bati twabatumye kutumvikana nti twabatumye kumvikana !mu gihe ushaka ko conflotation nta nta kundi wabishobo wabigenza ? iraba !twa byaje tubirora !
- Martin: Ese mwatubwira ku rupfu rwa Mutara bya…………….
- Rwangombwa: Iyaaa !ibyo byo nubwo mu bikorwa bigaragara nta kintu twajyaga kubikorera ariko basangaga Mutara ari umuntu ushyigikiwe n'abaturage, bagasanga nta kintu bashobora gukora kizana imvururu Mutara ariho, yari umuntu abaturage bakurikiye ijana ku ijana, ii iyo babitangira akiriho nti byajyaga gufata, condition rero nyayo yagombaga kubibanziriza byari ukumwica ? niko jye mbibona, kandi niko nundi wese wari uriho muri icyo gihe, biriya bintu ntibaba barabigezeho iyo bikorwa Mutara ariho. Nicyo cyatumye babanza biba nka prealable yo kugirango ba bagere muri iriyaaa mirongo itanu n' icyenda il fallait suprime d'abord Mutara bamaze kumukuraho noneho byose ba byorgnisa uko bashaka ?nta figure yari ikurikiwe ihari nkuko Mutara yari ari reka reka, niba hari ibindi
- yves: None se umuntu yibaza Mutara wa mbere ariko ishyingurwa rye habaye imvururu abazungu bashaka gushyiraho umwami wabo sinzi uko ……
- Rwangombwa: Nta mvururu yabaye ahubwo habaye icyo abazungu bise coup d'Etat, habaye ikintu batari batatekerezaga, kwimika gushyiraho undi mwami kuko bari baziko Mutara avuyeho nta mwana asize ? nta mwana yigeze abyara ? rero yarababyaraga bagapfa ?byari mu mipango nibo babi planingaga ? mu baganga be ? ariko kuko baziko apfuye atyo nta mwana asize bati ahubwo abazungu bari bateganije icyo bitaga conseille de legence yari ihari, n'amadisikuru yateguwe, noneho rero aho twari iMwima habaho kubatunguza ikintu batateganyaga habaho kwimika Kigeli, bibaye ee birabatungura, babanza kujijinganya kutabyemera, bareba agahinda na atmosphere ihari baba force yo kubyemera ariko bitari ku mutima. Nibyo byabaye ariko ibinyamateka byabyise ngo ni coup d'Etat noneho biga uburyo bazabihindura mu minsi iri imbere ariko bagize batya babona bari imbere y'igikorwa batategana, batigeze bateganya ? ibyo bise coup d'Etat yi iMwima ! iyaa kandi koko byarabatunguye kandi abantu batangira kwishima bagira bati icyari kigenderewe nukugirango uRwanda habemo vacum noneho bitume bakora ibyo bashaka .noneho basanga bashyizeho umusimbura utaganije mu nzira za kinyarwanda, ni birebire byo birabarya ! hari umwanditsi w'ikinyamateka kitwaga pourquoi pas, yabajije Haloi ati se ; ko bakuuhinduranye planni hari akandi uteganije mu mwanya noneho uzakora katari eeh n' ibingibi ? eeh uwa pourquoi pas yabyise ngo ni coup d'Etat ya Mwima !kuko byatangaje benshi ntibari biteze ko hari icyo kibazo gishobora kubaho ?icyo nta kubwira rero nuko niba byaragenze nabi cg byarakozwe neza nda eeh ariko muri uwo mwanya habayeho surprise yo kwimika ikintu kita batateganyaga na gato, aah nari mpari nabwo.
- Yves: …………evenement uko yagenze kuko hariho……..
- Rwangombwa: Oya,iii, hari uko byagenze ,umwami yaguye iBujumbura kuwagatandatu mu masaa tanu ya manywa, noneho baa mushyira mu bitaro aho ngaho b'improvisa ii une chapelle ardente mu cyubahiro,bohereza une delegation rero y'umuntu wo muri securite yabo y'abazungu byahuriranye no numwe mu bajyanama wari mu nama nkuru y'igihugu wari wamanutse iBujumbura,kubiba ku kibazo cy'imodoka ye cya assurance,noneho uwo muzungu bamuha nuwo Runuya sinzi ahantu bamukuye acaaa yee bamuha n'indege ya apporte pa apporte aza i Butare kubibwiraaa l'Abbe Kagame kubibwira mama we no gutegura umugore we,noneho Runuya nawe bamutwohere zaho iNyanza,amanuka yarahadusize twari muri comission fonciere,nari mpari ngo aze kutubwira ko umwami yaa yatanze yigendeye,araza yatugezeho nko mu masaha cumi n'abiri ya nimugoroba afitee yari sous le coup de l' emmotion cyane,ubona ababaye, atana yageze imbere y'urugi ananirwa gutambuka,ndamubaza nti se Runuya n'amahoro aho ? ni ni n' imodoka yawe ntawe yishe noneho ? ati oya jyewe ibintu birakomeye umwami yatanze ntawe ukiriho ?uuuh ! tuti birakomeye !amaze kubitubwira ako kanya noneho twitegura kumanuka kujya kuzamura u umurambo we iBujumbura.
- Rwangombwa: Twari tuhari tugeze ku munani, harimo murumuna we Rwigemera, harimo umutware Rwaburindi, harimo umugabo witwaa Ndamage ee Alphonse, harimo Mbanda, hari harimo Kaberuka, twari tugeze nko ku munani noneho tura tumanuka i Bujumbura ijoro ryose, twagezeee aho ngaho muri prince les geans, aho bamwexepojeje twahageze mu gitondo mu isaha cumi n'imwe,turamureba tu umubyeyi we, rero na nyina na nyina wobo nu n'umwamikazi Gicanda Rosarie bari bicaye aho nabo,bigeze nko mu isaha cumi n'ebyiri za mu gitondo noneho tumushyira murii serquelle. iSaa mbiri, eeee isanduku bayishyira ku rubaraza rw'ibitaro abasirikare baba biligi n'abanyekongo baradefira batanga resonne noneho hari imodoka iteganyije corbillare bayimushyiramo, tuzamukana nawe dutyo ubwo byari nko mu ma saa yine tugeze iNyanza noneho byari biteguye, dutangira k'orgnisa les veilles hari twahageze ku cyumweru nimugoroba.
- Rwangombwa: Nibuka ko twaje kumutabaza ku waa ku wa kabiri mu ma saaha nkaa nko mu ma saatanu n'igice mu ma sasita kuko habanje misa yo hakurya iNyanza turongera tumugarura mu rugo tumuzanaaa, aho ngaho hateganyikwe, habanza discour ya Kayihura vice president we w'inama hataho, iya Haloi,noneho rero nkuko byari biteganyije,umwami yari iwacu nitwe tworuganizaga nyineee le protocole,uu Kayumba ajya imbere,akora une proclamation avuga ko mu muco wa banyarwanda nk'umweru wo munzu kwa Nyonga ibyo nibo babigenewe kwimika,bati igihugu ntikirara nzi iyo utabaje umwami nukumushyira muugitaka ugomba kubikora ariko wa ploclamye undiumusimbura, iyo ni formule y'abanyarwanda, noneho atangaza umusimbura,abantu batangira kwishima no gusimbuka gouverneur rero nawe watangiye kuvuga ati ariko tugomba kujya mu nzu y'inama tukabyemeranyaho ?ibyo birangiye abakuru bari bahari tumaze gushyira umurambo muri kavo noneho,dufata inzira yo kujya muri iyoo nzu y'inama niyo yari parlement yacu.
- Rwangombwa: Gouverneur rero ibi ibyo yatubwiraga yagize ati rero nkuko amategeko abiteganya, mwashyizeho candidature yanyu ariko rero nanjye ngomba mu mategeko kugirango yemerwe ngomba gutangaaa investeture ni koko niko byari biteganije nta cyari ki cyakorwaga kitateganije keretse nkiyo kuko twabonye surprise gusa, nuko ananirwa uko yabihakana aka ukabona byemera atabyemera investeture yaje kuyitangira aha iKigali ii mu kwezi kwa cyenda mu ma tariki nka cumi n' abiri.nibwo yaje kuyitanga noneho n'abajyanama bakuru bose b'inama y'igihugu bahari, kuko twari dufite ikintu tudashaka ko kizongera ,kuba umwami nkuko bari barabigize mukuru we.twashakaga ko aba umwami constitutionnelle,niba hariho partie politique yatsinda akaba ariyo itegeka ariko umwami akaba uw'icyubahiro gusa.bashaka kubyanga birabananira bati ni sibyo eeh finalement turemeranywa bemera ko aba umwami constutitionnelle.ariko bari bafite planni zabo zibyo bazakora ? eeeh byari ibintu ubona eee twemeranyaho, nabo batemera ? bafite planni zabo tu, nuko byagenze, se ntimwambazaga uko yaje gutanga nuko byagenze iMwima niki nuko byarangirije kuza aha aba amaze no kubona investeture noneho atanbagira mu gihugu.
- Rwangombwa: Ntibyamaze iminsi kuko investeture yayibonye mu kwezi kwa cyenda mu kwa cumi na kumwe les evenements zaratangiye, mu byukuri genocide nibwo yatangiye icyo gihe, ababivuga batyo ntibanabeshya.ubwo se wabonye umuntu amategeko y'igihugu yari ageze ku kwiba igitoki mu rutoki rw'umuntu kitari icyawe, wabihanirwaga amezi abiri, noneho bigeze aho ku kwica umuntu kuko ari umututsi iiii nta kosa ririmo ? Is terrible!!Abantu hu ni nigeze kubabwira nti izi za humain light zateye icyo gihe zari he? Zari he? Icyo gihe kwica umuntu impunite totale ku ku ntihagire ikintu ubarwaho nk'ikosa? Naho iki gihugu cyarakomeraga! Kuva muri mirongo itanu ni icyenda abantu bapfa systematiquement ntawubihanirwa! Byabayeho ! uuh !ndakubwira jye jye ndi umwera gato, ibyo nabonye nta nta ntawe nkeneye wundi ubinsobanurira ibyo nabonye narabibonye, ibisigaye ni za films badukorera ? nuko bi ibihe bibaho bigahinduka ariko ibihe byo kurenganyaaaaa, ukarenganyaaa, ukibwira ko ibintu byose bizarangira bityo ? ntibibaho ! ntibibaho !le regne de l'impunite uu gusa ?n'ibintu bibi cyane !
- Yves: Nyuma yicyo gihe se hari ikintu nibaza ba………. Banyu bazamutse bate batangira, ni hehe byahereye uwambere bishe bamuziza icyo gihe yaba yarapfuye ryari……………….
- Rwangombwa: No, icyo gihe ni phase ya Mutara, irarangiye ee hajyaho probleme ya Kigeri, noneho haza phase yatangiye ni yaa partie politique ! icyo gihe officielement nta partie politique yari mu Rwanda ? uuuh hatangiye union nationale la Rwandaise n'amashyirahamwe itariki ya cumi n'eshatu y'ukwa cyenda, muri mirongo itanu n'icyenda, ubwo ni apres Mutara, Kigeli yajyiyeho, i ya Bakayibanda rero le PARMEHUTU, PARMEHUTU ! itaho iya Gitera yaratinze burya ! APROSOMA !, Aprosom yari association ntabwo yari partie politique ! yaje guhindukamo partie politique nyuma.mu mateka mujye mubimenya ? eeh !arikooo Mutara we yaranayisize !hataho ahubwo na LADER, muri icyo gihe kuva mu kwezi kwa cyenda kugera mu kwaaaaa cumi na kumwe, nibwo eee yatangiye intambara ya eeee Mbonyumutwa, yari umusushefu icyo gihe ku Ndiza, yagiye mu misa iGitarama, yari yaje kuuu gukoranya mitingi zari zihari ngo abana ba batutsi baramukubita.
- Rwangombwa: Asubira iwabo ina nuko, imvururu yatangiye !buracya itariki ya kabiri nibwo basenyaga inzu yo kwaa Haguma, rero niba Haguma yarahunze bica umusushefu witwaga Ruhinguka,bica undi witwa Katarabirwa,Nkusi iii mukuru wa Bwanakweri baramukomeretsa bamusize baziko yapfuye, ariko yaje kubaho,nuko l'affaire itangira ityo ! habaho contre reaction, reaction na none y'amashyirahamwe eeeh, nayo itapa for Kayibanda akirira hafi yihishe mu rutoki yari agiye kubigwamo, hapfa na none umuparmehutu witwa Sindibona, hapfa undi witwa Pole pole Mukwiye, babona ko ibintu bicitse, Haloi est venu straite iNyanza, ni nko gusaba imbabazi bati ibintu biracitse !bemeranya n'umwami basinya amatangazo asaba amahoro, bohereza indege mu Rwanda hose igenda iyajugunya, wambazaga uko ibya ba Kayibanada byatangiye ? la chament et a commence comme ca, noneho rero hatsa hataho vague ya distition bakuraho abayobozi bariho icyo gihe ba bazana resident speciale, uwitwa logiste yaje kutunyagira hariya muri prefecture y'ikigali ! n' umwami ahari ?ubuyobozi kavukire bwashenywe icyo gihe, nuba n'ubusivile le resident, le derniere resident civile Prudom nawe akurwaho w'umubiligi.
- Rwangombwa: Ubutegetsi bw'umwami burasinzirizwa, ubuyobozi ka nyabuyobozi buhabwa colonel Registe, haje umujenerali witwa Yasence,aturutse kigali,aturutse Leon paul ville,atubwira atii mwebwe batware b'igihugu n'iki kuva ubu ntacyo mukiri cyo ! nawe rsident civile Prudom nawe ukuweho !ubutegetsi ndabyibuka mu gifaransa cye gikaze, ati mbushyize mu maboko ya coloneli Registe !ngiye no kubabwira ubushobozi afite ; ashobora gufunga, ashobora kwa arreta, ashobora gufunga, ashobora no kwica.ati iii ni niii n' icya kabiri cy'Imana !donc amategeko nayo.namwe rero ; Kayihura, Mungarurire, Rwangombwa, mushinzwe kuba muri kumwe n'umwami kandi mubujijwe gusubira ahari iwanyu !nari mpari eeeh ! tuva aho ngaho twumiwe, noneho Rogiste koko bucya afunga, bucya anyaga, akora koko nkuko yabitegetse, ntawe abajije.nuwo mu resident w'umucivile b' informa Haloi, bati noneho ujye udiringa nuriya niwe mwe niwe muyobozi uriho ?nta hariho benshi bajya bambaza bati u uriya mutware w'umwami n'ubundi nta wanyaze ni ni rumeur zatunyaze, nta acteur de stitution tugira ?aah ! ni yuwo musirikare waje akatubwira ko ntacyo tukiri cyo ! mu ma dosiers eeh, dufite ayadushyizeho dufite zaa.ariko iyo kudukuraho officielement eeeh ntayo niyo ya Registe !atubwiye ko ntacyo tukiri cyo kuva ubu ! wagira ute se ? erega ikintu abantu bato kijya kibayobera mudashobora no kw'imagining ni ntuza ni ububasha nubu n'imikorere abakoroni bari bafite, ntawe baripotingaho, nibo bigarukiyeho, ibyakozwe bizahabwa umugisha niki cyababuza gukora uko bashaka ?n' iki koko ? uh naba natwe twagiyeho igihe hamaze kujyaho abiga ? nka ba data se ?nka bakuru bacu twasimbuye ! umuzungu yararaga hariya aje mu mu by'akazi yita iby' akazi, yacumbika mu nkambi akabwira umusushefu ati ; ujye kunzanira umukobwa uyu munsi turarane !aka ukamushaka wanze ukunze ukamubona ?hum hum aah eeh uko babyumva niko bakoraga.
- Rwangombwa: Ibyo rero bi nkamwe turabibabwira nti mu bi realisa, nti mubyumva !ariko niko byari biri. la realite uvuze ko nyiri urugo yapfuye aba ariwe wamwishe se ?ubaa uwambaza ingero nazimubwira ? nazimubwira !ooh urabihakana ko atariko byari bimeze da ? namuha urugero, namuha urugero rw'umuzungu munii, na nari mukuru nari nzi ibyo nkora ?ariko mu gihe cyacu bene ibyo ngibyo byari bimaze gucika ?cg agakoresha abantu yaba umuhanda yaba iki ? ati simbahemba nti ntibiteganyijwe, wabakoresherezaga se iki ?niba wari utazi utajya kumuhemba ? hari uwo nabwiye, nti ubu wavuye iBurayi uzi neza ako uje gukoresha umuntu wowe urahembwa, none uwo ukoresheje ye guhembwa kandi ari mukene ?naba no mu gihe cyacu wari usigaye uvuga nk'ijambo, bakabireba, bati bizagera kure, kandi wabihageza yenda akazabizira ! umuzungu twabyononejeho maze bamuhaye amasaha mirongo ine n'umunani !we yari yibye, yanze guhemba abantu avuka ko ngo ari umurimo wagombaga gukorerwa ubusa, ariko ya liste umusushefu yamuhaye aragenda arayisorta we ayishyira mu mufuka ?iyo watanwaga icyaha nkicyo rero urumva ko ari scandard !ariko bakoraga uko bashaka ntawe barandaho compte ! waba rero wahanze ijisho bakakureba ukagi ugahindurwa umwanzi ?uriya ntashobotse ibintu nk'ibyo ? ariko abakoroni, abakoroni ni abantu babi !kandi iki gihugu nubwo amafuti yatayeho ariko intangiriro yacyo yo kubaho yaratangiye, ntibizasubira inyuma enewe !ariko byari biteye isoni.
- Rwangombwa: Mujye mwitonda mu bibaze kandi mu byandike, eeh amateka y'abantu babibayemo n'ishyano kuko, bitangiye hasigaye ingerere !yababibayemo ? kandi bibwirako, nibwira ko ba benforminga batariganije ?si nta interet mfite ngo nzandika igitabo nkigurishe, ndabwira abana banjye, ndabwira abantu nibwira ko bizabagirira akamaro.ibisigaye n'amashyengo tu !ibyabaye byarabaye ntawuzabisubiza inyuma, twiringire ko bitazongera .icyo nabifuriza nukuzakora akazi kanyu neza ariko ntimuzayoberwe na gato ibyabaye muri iki gihugu.kandi kuburyo nyabwo, butabeshye budafite icyo bigenderewe kindi kida cy'ubucuruzi cg cyo kugira ngo za mpatse ibihugu.
- Yves: Nanone njya nibaza yuko nti byatangiye bigenda bisenya umuryango nyarwanda, hari ibintu mubona tu bizongera ukabona bigasubirana neza ?
- Rwangombwa: Iyaa, ndabibona cyane kuko, abanyarwanda uuh, muzi ubwenge, mu mwumva vuba ? sinziko n'abagiye babyangiza basa n'abagurwa nako babagurirwa, twiringire ko ba byagendanye n'igihe,ariko ha ahari imbere,ahari imbere bitazungana ,ndi confiant cyane cyane,biracyaruhije inko iiiiii inkovu ni nini cyane eeh ariko bizatungana pe !tres confiant ku kintu,bizatungana kuko naha bigeze si siko twa twahatekerezaga hariho un moment abantu bari bihebye !non ubu se ko problemes murazifite ariko muri hamwe !muri iwanyu ariko urumva miliyoni ebyiri,miriyoni ebyiri n'igice zari ziheze hanze ?naho ubu muri iwanyu ? ibigenda muri kumwe nabyo ibitagenda muri kumwe nabyo muzabishakira umuti,arikontbwo mu mukiri ba anti sors nkuko hari bagendaga babitwita.twe turi abanzi b'igihugu cyacu ti non ubu ntibizongera ! yenda si parfait s' ibintu biri parfact, ariko ntibizongera ? kongera kangara ? non ! muri iwanyu, ntabwo muzabyemera ko byongera !bizatwara yenda igihe, nizi ngengabitekerezo zizagenda zigabanuka pe ! tres confiant ! kandi rero ibi by'abanyarwanda ariko na bene kubikora muri kiriya gihe byakozwe, abenshi ntibemeranyaga nabyo ? ni mpemuke ndamuke ! ni ya nyoni y'urwara rurerure yimena inda, bari babizi neza bikaba kugirango uuf, barenze umunsi cg babinemo inyungu zindi, ariko babizi nez ako ibyo barimo atari byo.
- Rwngombwa: Eeh Niyo le propre y'abanyarwanda ngirango turemeranya kuri icyo kintu ? wari umbajije ati uko bireba ntibizagaruka ? nti ndi ndiringira cyane.
- yves: Ni nkiki wagira inama nkaba kiri bato niki bagomba kugirango byibuze bagarure nko mumyaka nkuko tuvuge mu rwanda dufite ikintu cyo gukora ngo ni vision tuenty tuenty, vision vingt vingt igomba kujya mu bucuruzi, igomba kujya mu bindi byose,
- Rwangombwa: Quelle la vie ?
- Yves: Ariko na none ntabwo tugomba kwibagirwa, indi visionna none igendanye na
- Rwangombwa: Ni n'ingengabitekerezo,
- Yves: N'ingengabitekereze, harimo memoire, harimo histoire yacu, nk'urubyiruko uruhare rwabo rwabigiramo ni uruhe ?
- Rwangombwa: Uuh, uuh Hari kimwe nemeranya nicyo za vision economique, nemeranya nazo cyane kubera iki ? developpement yonyine izagabanya ibitekerezo by' ingengabitekerezo cyane, cyane, kuko iyo unabyitegereje, numbajije ubungubu ukaza ukareba ukuntu umunyarwanda akora ukareba ikibuze muri iki gihe n'amafaranga, developpement nta umunsi ya ya ya yashe ya ndi,nigeze guca hariya,kuri iriyaaa factor ya texture hari mu ma saha afunga akazi hari mu saha cumi n'igice cumi n'imwe,ndeba abantu bahava, ndibwira nti mu Rwanda icyaduha nka handi nka habiri ka hatatu hanvosha abantu bangana kuriya ,aho kujya mu mabwa, ya gahutu gatutsi,ibintu bidafite icyo bivuze na gito,ikibazo cyaburiramo !developpement economique n'ikintu ngombwa ntiwabwira umuntu wirariye ubusa,umuntu wabuze icyo arihira amashuri umwana we ujya kwiga,cg ariha kwa muganga, ngo umushyiremo ibitekerezo ideologique, nta ntabyanze ! ariko aragira ati ibi ntacyo bimariye ! ee icyo kintu nicyo kuzirikana cyane developpement economique.iyi plan tuenty tuenty, ifite icyo izamara cyane cyane, kandi bi biranagaragara ! ahari maracime economique nta developpement nimwe ishobora kuhaba !nta terambere rishobora kuhaba aa ntibibaho ? ntibibaho.
- Rwangombwa: Kuri ibyo nde nde ndemeranya na nuwaba avuga ko kugaruka kwa genocide byo se c'est pas possible !ntimwabikundira, ntabwo byakunda ? ntimwabikundira, kandi nta ni ntanifayida bifite ? iyihe se ?ntayo
- Yves: Tugendeye nkibyabaye mu Rwanda, hari inzibutso, hari ukubona bantu bashyingurwa mu cyubahiro, hari n'ahantu hadafashwe neza kubera ubushobozi buke, hari n'abatabizi kuko ashobora kubona wenda ko bitabareba
- Rwangombwa: No, no, no, ibyo ibyo by'inzibutso n'igitekerezo cyabanje kurwanywa cyane? Ndabizi? Bavuga ngo se? Uruhande rumwe ngo tura precornisa ntuza le conciliation ikinditugahuza hozaho ayo ma picture? None se? Uzireconciriya n'umuntu utazi ibye ibibi yakoze ?cg ibyakozwe twe kubyegeka no ku muntu?ntushobora kwi reconciliya n'igikorwa utazi icyo ari cyo?aa ,aaa, ahubwo zikwiye kwitabwaho eee urugero ni nkiriya ee y'igisozi,kuko ntushobora kwirinda ikintu utazi uko cyakozwe!nta nta ibyo yenda byaba ari uko buryo mwazabaza n'abandi ariko jye ibyo nemera nuko mbishyigikiye,urwibutso rwa genocide aho zigiye zikwiye gufatwa neza,ndetse byashoboka ,mukajya mujya no gutemberera mu byababanjirije,mukabasaba inama,kuko saha muri iki igihugu honyine byabaye? Hari hirya no hino byagiye biba, muri Armenia, muri Kambodge, murii Israël, byose mukagumana contact yabo kugirango bibajijure mu mikorere? Icyo gitekerezo, ndagishyigikiye kabisa, kuko iyo utazi icyakubayeho ntumenya uko ukirinda? Kandi n'ishyano ryaraguye bagomba kubimenya mu banyarwanda ko ibyo bintu bitigeze biba? Ntawirinda rero icyo atazi? Ii mujye mubwira abo mubifatanije babitsimbarareho, nutabyumva ubu amaherezo azabyumva, Byanze bikunze.
- Yves: Hari ikintu wenda tukiri kuri ibyo bishobora gukurura ikibazo nkuko tubivuze developpement economique nta ngufu iragira?ahari developpement economique niyo ifasha ngo ibyo byose bikorwe,izo nzibutso,n'ibindi byose kuko nabyo bisaba amafaranga asohoka,asohoka abacitse ku icumu ,ahubwo abo bireba nibo ngirango bwa mbere na mbere bihangayikishije ariko noneho hari ukuntu batameze neza, hari ubuzima bubi barimo,ese ubwo ntituzahura n'ikibazo cy'ubushobozi buke dufite bityo ugasanga ibintu bimwe na bimwe bizagenda biducika
- Rwangombwa: Eee, mukwiye kubitwara muri gahunda kuko umuntu ntiyirengagiza amikoro ye! Mukabishyira muri plan hearth zabyo, nikihe cyabanza? Ni ikihe cyataho? Ntibibe ku cya cyifuzo ee mwatsimbararaho mutazi uburyo muzagishobora? Kuru kuri ubwo buryo rero mwabireba hari inzibutso kuzubaka, Muburyo bw'icyubahiro kandi muburyo nyine, erega abazifite n'igisobanuro gisobanura ibyabaye muri iki gihugu, nuje aturuka hanze cg se n'abanyarwanda ubwabo, hariho abari inaha batazi uko byagenze! Mukabashishikariza kujya baza bakareba ibyabaye mu gihugu cyabo? Ariko ibyi inzibutso, hari nabariya bacitse ku icumu? Bariya se bo inku nkukiri iheru heru, atgira aho yegeka agasaya, ee urumva se we atari muri position ituma atakumva neza? Amatwi yaraye ubusa se ugirango arumva? Mu mukwiye kubya bakwi rero n'abayobozi ii iyo ni sta standard ibarenze, bakwiye kubyiga bakareba za priorites zibanje nizitayeho, ariko ibanjeho hakazataho izi nzibutso a mon avue! Inzibutso n'ibintu prioritaires cyane.
- Yves: Hari igice cy'abanyarwanda cyagergeje kugumana icyo nakwita wamuco wa kera wo gukunda igihugu ndetse no gukunda abanyarwanda ubwabo!
- Rwangombwa: Iyaaa,
- Yves: Hari abanyarwanda bahishe abantu, bagize uruhare rukomeye akemera akavuga ati jyewe, ndaguhisha, sinshobora kwica, nimushaka nanjye munyice, abo bantu babaye bake, abo bantu nkamwe mukuze mubabona mute muri societe? Mubona ba
- Rwangombwa: Wemera ko yishe?
- Yves: Oya, abantu bahishe abantu
- Rwangombwa: Uuh, bahishe abantu, ooh yoo, yoo, yoo! Abo ngabo n'abantu bakwiye gushyirwa mu mu rwego rwubahwa? Bari baritanze mu mwanya wa baa wabajyaga gupfa? Bagira n'amahirwe ntibapfa? Abo ni abantu bakwiye icyubahiro cyane cyane cyane .eee, ibyo se ibyo niba hari n'umudende utangwa bakabaha? Ubwoo ikidari cyi cy'ubugabo, ee ntabwo bikunze? Erega kera mu kinyarwanda habagaho kugarukira umuntu? Yenda gupfa ukamwitangira, akabaho nawe ariko ukabaho? Nabo n'abantu bi b'ishimwe ariko n'ino mu buyobozi hari abahari hari abahariya iGiti, hari abagiye bashyirwa mu rwego rw'ishimwe ry'igihugu, ntibakwiye kwibagirana na gato? Na gato na gato! Erega bakoze ibitangaza!
- Yves: Uko mukurikije mubona aba hari abantu bahishe rwose ntazi namwe mutazi,nta nu muntu numwe ubazi,
- Rwangombwa: Ba Batanakeneye kumenyekana. 0
- Yves: batanamenyekanye
- Rwangombwa: Uuu!bataa
- Yves: Mubona hatarimo ikibazo cyuko bakoze ikintu bakwiye ku mugani ishimwe
- Rwangombwa: Cyane se!
- Yves: Tukaba ntaryo tubaha, ubwo hari….
- Rwangombwa: nuu ,suu
- Yves: Mubona hakorwa iki?
- Rwangombwa: Oh,ibyo ni murwego rw'ubuyobozi,kandi bigeze kubivuga ,si j'ai un bonne memoire,bigeze kubivuga batanga n'ingero, ingero zirahari,kandii ba ibyo byo bazabakurikirana erega hariho cya kindi, cyuko turi Simvange,tuvanze n'abadashaka bene ayo mashimwe,tuvanze nabadashaka ko ingengabitekere zishira eeh nabo bariho!bariho maze n' ibintu byo kwitonderwa!bagiye ba bata batabavuga ,nabyo hari ikigenderewe tutazi? Ariko mu gihe bamenyekanye ishimwe bararikwiye cyane, ni intwari!
- Yves: Hari ikibazo, hari abanabakiri bato bafite ikibazo
- Rwangombwa: Uuh, uuh!
- Yves: Kibyo babayemo bagifife,batabasha kwiga neza,hari abajya no mu bintu bibi nakwita bya gisore ,amayoga
- Rwangombwa: Byaaa rumogi,
- Yves: Eeee.
- RWANGOMBWA: Ni ikibazo kigendanye n'ubushobozi buke,eeeh ariko kirahari;nk'iriya mubazungu ho hari abagiye bajya muri tretement baka;bakavuzwa,kuko ibintu abantu b'ino babayemo ntibisanzwe.Byagize icyo bisigaza mumitwe y'aba;si n'abantu bato gusa nta mubyeyi wigeze kunsanga aha urabireba ugasanga buriya nta kintu cyabyo kirimo se?Urabibona kandi biru;biranumvikana,ibyo bintu sinzi ni;ni;ni;sinzi ukuntu umuntu yabivuga,naho iyo canceling rero y'abantu bakuze,ibiganiro,ibitekerezo;n'ejo bundi tugiye kureba Ministre wa ge;wa Enseignement yarabitubwiye ko yabibonye muri Japon.Abantu bakuze;abantu bakuze babifitemo uruhare,babifitemo uruhare kuko umuntu ukuze si kimwe n'umuto.umubonamo ko nta mafaida agendereye cyane nta competition arimo;acyuye igihe,ariko yifuza nanone kugira akamaro.Akamaro rero ashoboye mu ntege nke asigaranye ni ako kujya inama.Bigiye bishoboka bakagira ukuntu ba;batumirwa,baka;bakagira inama bakaganira n'abatoya bafite ubwo bukomere byagira akamaro ntabwo ari ibintu koko bipfuye ubusa.Ariko ku isi yose ntawe utabizi;abantu bakuze bagira akamaro,kandi bo batazi ko bakagira.Mu ntege nke bafite ariko bafite experience y'ibyo bagiye bacamo byagirira abandi akamaro.Uuuh
- Yves: None mukurikije ubuzima bwa Nyuma ya Genocide, ubuzima bwa nyuma ya Genocide.
- RWANGOMBWA: Eeeh; ndakumva.
- Yves: Dukurikije igihe gishize n'aho tugeze ubona ari ahantu twakwita hashimishije buri ki; buri Rwego rwose.Haba mu mashuri, haba muri économie haba, no gufata abcitse ku icumu, ariko noneho twibaza mubona ubumwe n'ubwiyunge mubona bushoboka.Mubona aho tugeze hashimishije? Cyangwa mubona bikorwa mu buryo bushimishije, cyangwa harimo ikibazo.
- RWANGOMBWA: Aaah,ibyo ntushobora kubi mornitaringa neza ngo ugire uti;uko mbibona.Uhh;uh;ni ibintu biri it's Discret cyane,ariko ubu jye nkunze ku;kugira urwitegererezo,ku bintu bimwe mperaho.Usanga nka Securte iri ino aha irashimishije cyane.Nk'umuhanda kuu majoro umuntu agenda nta Probleme.Muri bamwe tujya tugenderera muri iyi minsi natemberanaga na mugenzi wanjye KANAMUGIRE,tukajya kureba abayobozi ku bibazo cyane by'umuco,ushimishwa n'abo usanze ukuntu ba;ba;bazi ibintu.Bafite Competence nziza kandi barumva,se mieux dispose que gusa;Donc mu ijambo rimwe abari mu myanya baragerageza,baragerageza kandi abari mu mirimo baragerageza;ku;ureba n'ahantu uturuka,n'umuntu ufite amanita meza cyane;mwagiye mugira ibintubyinshi cyane nyuma ya Genocide,kubwigenge;eeh;kubwiyunge.Biraruhije no ku;no ku;ni nkuko mbabwiye,biraruhije kumenya ibyo aribyo.Biraruhije cyane.Ariko hariho Facteur imwe yitwa igihe izabikosora.Igihe kiza;kizagenda kibiringaniza kandi ni ibintu bidakwiye kuvundirwa,ni ibintu byo gutwara buhoro,buhoro.Umusosiyete yara yarakomeretse bisesereje;ariko nta wa kwihutira guca urubanza ubu,ariko bizagera aho.Ibi;twigeze no kubikomozaho.tutari confiant ariko si ibya none,biracyatwaye akanya ariko bizagerwaho.Kuko abanyarwanda siko;siko muteye.Ta;ntabwo urwangano rubarimo mumitima,ni urwangano rwigishijwe;or Kwigisha ni uguhozaho;nimukomeze mwigishe inyigisho nziza n'igihe kigenda cyunguka,n'ababikoze bamburwe integer,niko na nature igenda iberimina; ahari imbere hazaba hazima.Uuuh
- Yves: Wenda twavuga mbere y'uko hari icyo mwakongeraho twavuga kuri gacaca muyibona gute?
- RWANGOMBWA: Non, non, non Gacaca yo na, na, na; sinzi ngo uwagereranije ko uwahimbye Genocide n'uwahimbye Gacaca ahari ngo Gacaca nyibonamo ibintu bibiri,ukuye ko kurenganura,no guhishura ibyo abantu bibwira ba tsimbarayeho;ni na Document Historiques.Mfite agatabo kayo,na; nagize amahirwe sinzi uwakampaye, ariko ikindi gihe abantu bazabyigaho barebe bati nta kintu gifite akamaro Gacaca ntibeshya,Gacaca ntihimba,igenda igaruka mubyo abantu batatekereje ko byamenyekana.N'uriya wapfuritse kure,agira atya umuvuyemo akaba ari umuvandimwe we;basangiye se na nyina.Ariko amaraso y'umuntu arakomeye;kwica birakatsindwa n'agasani.N'uwibwira ngo yapfukira;sinzi ukuntu bisohoka.Wa wundi umuvuze akumva ko afite yituye abivuze.Gacaca se nta kintu wabona uyigereranya.Ntawe ihimbira,ahubwo iramuhishura;aho yihishe kure hariya;ikamushyira ahagaragara.Ikiriho kandi kinengwa koko ni ugu protega abo bibwira bazabavamo.Icyo kintu bakwiye kukirwanaho cyane.aho kubizira bakaba Protégé. Naho ubundi Gacaca se ni iki?Ni ukuri kwambaye ubusa,ni ukuri kuzima.Ngirango;duhinnye amagambo mu biganiro twagize twagiranye mu,byo nagiye mbahanura by'ibyo nabayemo kuri jye yenda sijye bigarukiyeho,n'abandi mwazababaza;ariko twese intego ni imwe dukwiye guhurizaho ni ukubaka.Tutabeshyanye,tudashatsemo serration ngo umwe abyiyitirire agire ate.Urwanda rwarababaye; rwarababaye pe;pe;pe;kuburyo bwo muri iki gihe umuntu wese akwiye kuzana umusanzu;akawutanga wo kubaka,no gukomereza aho bigere,ntihabeho guhora dushaka gusubira inyuma mu byahise.Ni iyo nama ni aho ngarukiriza.Gukora uko umuntu ashoboye kugira ngo umusanzu we ugire icyo umarira iki gihugu.Kandi na rwa rukundo rw'igihugu na kwakundi kucyitangira byahoze.Sinavuga ngo ntaho byagiye,byarahagiye hwa,ma;ma;byaragandaye cyane ariko noneho igihe cyo kubibyutsa kirageze.Eyah;ahasigaye ni ah'ubutaha.Ni ukuri nza;ndi mu babashyigikira cyane,iki kibazo ki; ni ikintu gikwiye kutujya ku mutima.Kabisa Yves we.
| Identifier mike: | Kmc00046/kmc00046_vid1 |
| Title: | Oral Testimony of RWANGOMBWA J. Chrysostome |
| Description: | The oral testimony of Rwandan elder RWANGOMBWA J. Chrysostome recorded by the Kigali Genocide Memorial in Kigali, Rwanda. The testimony describes the political and cultural history of ethnicity in Rwanda. The testimony is given in Kinyarwanda. |
| Media format: | mini-DV tape |
| Language: | kin |