Oral Testimony Of MUZUNGU Bernardini
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Table of Contents
- Introduction
- Education Background
- Rwandan history
- Ethnic groups
- Clans
- Reign of kings
- Military divisions
- Colonialists
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- Introduction
- General History
- Rwandan history
- Archeology
- Government and Political History
- Military
- Kingship
- Colonial Period
View People
- Benardini Muzungu
- Nyirarumaga
- Rubunga
- Marie Claude Van Grunderbeek
- Speke
- Kagame
- Marcel Bertefert
- Mukobanya
- Kigeri
- Rwabugiri
- Mibambwe
- Yuhi
- Kirima
- Mutara
- Ruganzu
- Mpimba
- Ndori
- Gahima
- John Honing Speke
- Alexander Arnold
- Mortohani
- Leopold
- Musinga
- Rudahigwa
- Classy
View Places
- Kacyiru
- Buhoro
- Nyaruguru
- Kibeho
- Kabwayi
- France
- Switzerland
- England
- Canada
- Burundi
- Congo
- Rwanda
- Africa
- Butare
- Kibungo
- Gisaka
- Gasabo
- Bukavu
- Kigali
- Ethiopia
- Uganda
- Shorongi
- Moba
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Ubuhamya Bwanditse
- Martin: Uyu munsi n'itariki ya 23 ukwezi kwa gatatu, umwaka w'ibihumbi bibiri na karindwi. Aha turi ni ku kacyiru turi kumwe na Padiri Muzungu Bernardin aho tugiye kuganira nawe ku mateka. Padiri Bernardin MUZUNGU mwaba mugira ngo mutangira mutwibwira.
- Muzungu: Nk'uko umaze kubivuga nitwa Bernardini Muzungu nkaba ndi umu Padiri w'umudominikani mba hano ku Kacyiru. Aho mvuka iwacu ni ku musozi wa Buhoro muri Nyaruguru, navutse muri mirongo itatu na kabiri.
- Muzungu: Ubwo rero narinze ngera hano mu ba Padiri b'abadominikani nciye mu nzira ndende y'amashuli guhera I Kibeho, mu mashuli abanza I Kabgayi, mu badominikani byatumye njya mu bihugu byo hanze, ubufaransa, ubusuwisi, ubwongereza, canada.
- Muzungul: Eh n'aho ngarukiye rero nagarutse muri mirongo irindwi na kabiri mpurirana n'ibibazo tuza kuvuga kandi tuzi by'intambara. Njya mu Burundi, njya I Congo. Mu 1994 intambara irangiye hano nibwo nagarutse, none nkaba ndihano, tubivuze mu magambo ma ahinnye n'uko ndi. Ngirango ibyo birahagije kugirango nisasire ibiba, ibisubizo nshobora kugira mu bibazo muza kumbaza.
- Emery: Eh Nyakubahwa Padiri eh nagira ngo mbabaze mbere y'ingoma z'abami ino hari iki?
- Muzungu: Eh utangiye neza icyo n'ikibazo cy'ingenzi kirimo igisubizo cy'ibanze mubyo nza kuvuga byose, amateka y'isi n'amateka y'u Rwanda nk'uko nza kubivuga ahangaha ndabikura mu bintu nasomye ariko mu magambo makeya kuko kenshi na kenshi iyo batubajije usanga umuntu apfa kuvuga gusa.
- Muzungu: Ndagira ngo mbwire abashobora kuzanyumva ko ibyo mvuga biva mu bigega bitatu mu mateka y'u Rwanda. Ikigega cya mbere ari nacyo nza guheraho, n'ibyabaye mbere yayo mateka y'u Rwanda tuzi, mu gifaransa ni mate ni archeologie n'ibisigarataka abahanga basanze kw'isi bakamenya amateka n'imbere y'igihe cy'uko abantu bari bazi kwandika ngira ngo mwese mwarabyumvise.
- Muzungu: Umuntu wa mbere wavutse kw'isi Bibiriya imwita adamu ndetse na Eva, bavuga ko bari muri Afrika ndetse Afrika ya hafi ahangaha iwacu, aho ndaza kuhahera. Ibyo rero ni n'ibintu dusanga muri ibyo bisa bisigarataka.
- Muzungu: Ikindi kigega dusangamo amateka cyane twebwe abanyarwanda n'ayo abakurambere batubwiye, twese ngirango turabizi dusanga imigani n'ibindi byinshi, n'amazina y'imisozi ariko cyane amasoko dusangamo iyo migani cyangwa se inzira dukuramo ibyo bitekerezo by'abanyarwanda n'amateka y'abanyarwanda by'ihame kandi byanditswe bifashe biri ubutatu.
- Muzungu: Icya mbere n'ibisigo ngira ngo mwese mwumvise ibisigo uko biriho byabayeho byatangiranye n'umwamikazi Nyirarumaga mu kinyejana cya 16. hakabaho icya kabiri Ubwiru, ubwiru nabyo n'ibintu byatangiye kera byatangiye ndetse na na Gihanga.
- Muzungu: n'Umwiru w'abasinga ba kera witwaga Rubunga akaba nyina umwiru w'abasinga akaba ariwe wazanye ubwiru mu Banyiginya akawubwira Gihanga, ndetse bikamuviramo kugira uwo muhango wo kuzagumya kubyigisha abiru bo ku ngoma y'abanyiginya.
- Muzungu: Uti mbere y'abami muri icyi Gihugu ahangaha habaga iki? Nsubiye muri abo bantu babanyabwenge babikesha kureba ibyasigaye mu butaka, iki Gihugu cyacu, aka Karere kacu n'iyi Afrika yacu kubera ko ariho abo bose bahamya nta gushidikanya k'umuntu wa mbere ariho yabonetse .
- Muzungu: byatumye bahashakisha kubera ibisigazwa bigaragaza abantu ba mbere uko bari bameze. Byaje kugera igihe ndetse haza n'abanyabwenge baza no mu Rwanda no mu Burundi.
- Muzungu: Hari igitabo banditse cyane cyane cyanditswe n'umukobwa witwa Marie Claude Van Grunderbeek, uwo mushakashatsi yanditse igitabo cyitwa au premier fer au Rwanda et au Burundi, au premier age du fer, au premier age du fer au Rwanda et au Burundi, icyo gitabo rero kirimo ibintu byiza ndavugamo ikintu kimwe gusa.
- Muzungu: Aravuga ko icyo gihe basanze ko mu kinyejana cya karindwi mbere y'ivuka rya Yezu hano mu Rwanda hari abantu bahatuye bafite imyuga itatu : hari abantu bazi guhiga mu mashyamba, hari abantu bororaga inka, hari n'abantu b'abahinzi, ndetse ubigenzuye kubera ko hari ishyamba nyine muri aka karere kacu ngira ngo n'ahandi henshi bigitangira aba ababanje kuhakora uwo mwuga ngira ngo n'abahigi.
- Muzungu: kandi murabyumva kenshi aba kera ndetse n'umwami hari ikintu cyo guhiga. Hakaba rero nyine urebye ndetse aho ishyamba regabanukiye haje inka, niko bavuga inka zikarisha ishyamba rikarivunja riza maze kuhatazura.
- Muzungu: rero isuka irakurikira,Iyo ubigenzuye rero ndaza kongera mbivuge eh niho bahereye babona bahimba ama amazina twamenyereye ubungubu ngo y'ABAHUTU n'ABATUTSI n'ABATWA ukabona ko bise ABATWA n'abari bafite umwuga wo guhiga.
- Muzungu: abari bafite umwuga wo ku korora no kuragira Inka baki babise ABATUTSI, abari bafite umwuga wo guhinga babiga babita ABAHUTU ariko urumva bari abaturage bamwe batandukanyijwe n'imyuga turaza kureba ukuntu ikosa ryaje kuza nyuma byo kubyita ngo ni Amoko.
- Muzungu: Ehh ngabo abantu tuzi n'ibyari bihari mbere y'iki gihe tuvuga cy'abami, mu magambo make ni nk'ibyo umuntu yavuga kandi ngira ngo biba bihagije kugira ngo tukomeze urugendo rw'ibibazo wenda muza kumbaza.
- Martin: Nahita mbaza ikibazo, muratubwiye muti abahigaga babise abatwa abandi babita abahutu abandi babita abatutsi. Ese n'iki cyatumye nk'urugero navuga nk'abantu ba ba bari boroye babi batitaga abatutsi hari ikintu cyagenderewe kugirango ubwoko bwororaga bwitwe abatutsi.
- Martin: ibyo bihita binajyana no kuba uwahigaga nawe yaba umutwa? Ese ko hari ibintu tuzi banavuga bati nabyo bishobora kuba wenda bitazwi neza cyangwa byaraturutse ku mateka abantu batazi neza bavuga ngo ayo abo bantu utubwiye batatu ngo ntibagereye mu Rwanda rimwe hari abavuga ngo abatutsi baje nyuma hari abavuga ngo abahutu bagezemo mbere. Ibyo nabyo mwaza kugira ikintu mubitubwiraho ariko muhereye kw'icyo kintu cyo kwita amazina, byagirirwa bitewe n'iyihe mpamvu?
- Muzungu: Ehh ii ndaza kubigeraho turaza kubivuga hari umuntu witwa Speek niwe wazanye iyo theorie y'amoko niwihangana rero turaza kubigeraho mu kanya cyakora wenda ikibazo n'uko ara abahinzi ar'aborozi ari n'abahigi ukaba ubungubu babita ngo n'amoko uu wihanganye rero ndaza kubikumvisha.
- Muzungu: ubundi navuze y'uko gusa ari abaturage bo ni archéologie ntawababonye. Ni archéologie tuvuge nk'urugero icyatumye babivuga mbese ibyo bavugaga nk'ibi tu reba hano niba mugira hari tuvuge nk'aba abo bacukura basanze hari abacuzi. Hano muri iki gitabo harimo ibintu by'amafoto y'inyundo n'ubutare n'iki n'amabuye, ngirango niba byabonekaga umuntu yabona hari inzitso hano n'utubindi.
- Muzungu: Basanze mu muri iryo bumba rikoze muri ibi bibindi harimo amase hanyuma y'amase baragenda barayapima muri mu buryo bwabo bw'ibyuma byabo Carbone 14.
- Muzungu: basanga ayo mase yaravuye ku nka ehh biganisha muri muri ayo matariki nyine y'icyo gihe k'ikinyejana cya karindwi. Urumva n'ibintu bagenda baheraho si ukuvuga ngo babise abatwa babi umva sinavuga ngo hari uwabise ngo n'abatwa n'abatutsi cyangwa ngo bavuye,, ibyo by'ibitekerezo byo kuvuga ngo bafite aho bavuye bi nakubwiye ko hari umuntu wa mbere yavuye ntaho yavaga handi.
- Muzungu: Iyo bavuze y'uko ehhee umuntu wa mbere avuka muri Afrika ndetse Afrika ya hafi ahangaha, kuzana igitekerezo cyo kuvuga ngo bavuye ahandi ibyo nu nu n'ukutumva ikibazo neza; ntaho bavuye ndetse ahubwo bazava ino bajya n'ahandi n'abimukira bazaba bavuye iwacu.
- Muzungu: Kuvuga rero ngo Abahutu n'Abatutsi n'Abatwa nubwo igitekerezo ki cy'ubwoko ndaza kugisobanura mu kanya n'aho cyaturutse, ubu tuvuge gusa aho bacukura basanze harimo amase bati bari batu boroye inka, isuka na none iragaragara hari ibisuka babisangaga mu bitaka kandi bagasanga atari amasuka y'ubu ari aya kera uhh guhinga nabyo nyine, hari n'inka basanzemo hari na amandibiri y'inka basanze.
- Muzungu: uzarebe muri mu mu rugo rwa hariya rw'indangamurama, indangamurage I Butare hari hari urwasaya rw'inka rw'icyo gihe bapimye. Urumva rero n'ibintu n'ukuvuga ngo ngo ibyo bibazo rero by'amoko n'iki witonde ndaza kubisubiza n'ibintu byaje nyuma rwose, byaje nyuma s'igihe cy'abantu batekereza ni ikinyejana cya karindwi mbere ya Yezu Kristu ni kera cyane, bari batarabwira nabo bavuga bavuga ko bari batuye muri Ethiopia, niyo Ethiopia icyo gihe yari itaragira abantu batembera.
- Emery: Ikindi ahongaho nyine kuri abo bantu mutubwiye ko bahingaga abandi bakorora abandi bakabumba, bahuriraga kuwuhe muco? Kugirango bamenye ko ari abaturage b'u Rwanda ari abavandimwe icyo gihe.
- Muzungu: Ubwo uuragi u urabajije cyangwa uragira ngo
- Emery: Ku ngoma ya Gihanga ubwo u Rwanda rwari rumaze kubaho mwatubwira uko wavuga ku byerekeye imiterere y'umulyango nyarwanda.
- Muzungu: Ehh buretse turaza kongera icya kabiri turaza kucyongera nyuma. Reka tubanze imiterere mu nyarwanda hanyuma ubutegetsi bwi bw'intuza.
- Emery: Twari tumaze Padiri yaramaze kutuganirira ku miterere yaha y'aka karere dutuyemo mu gihe cya mbere y'amateka.
- Emery: mu miterere ya yaganiriweho bahereye kubyo yise ibisangwabutaka kuberako ikibazo cya kabiri tugiye kumubaza, tugiye kumubaza noneho ikibazo kirebana noneho mu gihe u Rwanda rwatangiye kutwa u Rwanda, rutangiye kugira aba rutangiye kugira abayobozi bafite uburyo bafite gahunda bayoboramo, bayoboramo abantu babo. Tukaba rero tugiye kugira ngo ehh Padiri mutubwire ku mateka y'u Rwanda duhereye eh mu gihe cy'umwami Gihanga.
- Muzungu: Ehh urakoze, Gihanga umwami w'u Rwanda wa mbere si ukuvuga ko u Rwanda rwatangiranye na Gihanga. Ubutaka bwacu uko tubizi tubisanga mu mateka y'u Rwanda uko abakurambere bagiye bayatubwira, aya mateka y'u Rwanda sinyahimba sinarimpari. Ndagirango nin'ikintu dukeneye ku kumenyesha abantu, aya mateka y'u Rwanda afite aho yanditse ay'ingenzi arazwi nk'uko nabivugaga mu kanya mbisubiremo ho gakeya; yanditswe ahantu hatatu.
- Muzungu: mu bisigo ariyo soko ya mbere rwose, mu bwiru abiru b'I ibwami, abiru b' Ibwami cyane cyane bavugaga uko imitegekere y'igihugu imeze, ndaza kubisubiraho gatoya mu kanya nyine, hakabaho n'ubucurabwenge, ubucurabwenge n'uku n'ibisekuruza by'Abami uko bagiye basimburana n'uko abamikazi n'amoko yababyaraga bitaga Ibibanda nabo bagenda bakuranwa ku ngoma.
- Muzungu: Bigitangira rero hatangira ku mu kanya twavugaga y'uko u Rwanda aha twahasanze kera mbere ya Yezu hari abantu bahiga, borora, bahinga. Byaratinze rero baza kwigirana baza kuba benshi baza gutegeka gushaka ukuntu babana, tuvuge umuntu abivuze neza yabanza guhera ku mulyango ku mulyango w'abanyarwanda uko watangiye naza kungeraho ndetse ukuntu byaje kubyara igihugu.
- Muzungu: ehh noneho byakunda. Urumva rero umulyango uko tuwuzi ubundi n'umugabo n'umuhungu n'umukobwa bashakana bakabyara abana. Umu umulyango w'abanyarwanda igihe ukiri mutoya waba uko ari batatu umugabo n'umugore n'abana batarashaka witwa urugo ibyo murabizi. Ingo iyo zimaze kuba nyinshi zikigera ku musekuruza basangiye babyitaga inzu inzu, inzu iyo zamaraga kuba nyinshi kandi iyo zamaraga kuba zituwe umuntu yaragendaga agatura hariya ku musozi.
- Muzungu: y'uko murabizi mwese ku musozi abana bakagenda bamutura impande, akagenda afata umusozi igihe yaba akishyira mu ntege.
- Muzungu: yaragendaga agafata ukwe igikingi cye cyanga ubukonde bwe. Igihe rero inzu zabaga nyinshi nazo bazitaga ubwoko ubwoko, bwa bwoko rero bukaba bufite igipande butuyeho ndetse butegeka bwicungaho ku butaka ku matungo kuki, byaratinze rero babyita igihugu igihugu, n'uko igihugu cyaje.
- Muzungu: Biranatinda rero ibihugu bimaze kuba byinshi by'amoko, n'ibihugu by'amoko ngirango murabizi tujya tubyumva, tukabisanga rero cyane cyane muri aka gatabo ka Padiri Kagame niyo nagirango mbereke kitwa INGANJI KARINGA, niho yatweretse aho Abanyiginya batangiriye kugira ingoma yabo kuri Gihanga, niho muri aka gatabo batubwira ibihugu byabaga muri aka karere kacu kaje kwitwa u Rwanda nyuma.
- Muzungu: ingoma zari zihari uhh nk'aho Gihanga yatangiriye, mube mu Bazigaba hari ubu ahitwaga mu Bubari ubungubu ni muri Park national, hakaba ha hariya mu Ndorwa, hakaba Abashambo ingoma y'Abashambo, urumva ni ni n'igihugu cy'Abashambo n'ingoma y'Abashambo; hakaba hariya za Kibungo mu Gisaka h'Abagesera, ha mu Nduga, hakaba Ababanda aha twicaye naho hakaba abandi ii ee n'ahandi henshi.
- Muzungu: Gihanga rero yatangiye ingoma yo gusa nk'aho yashyira hamwe utwo duhugu twose tw'ibihugu by'amoko, muby'ukuri nawe yatangiye afatanya n'abandi ariko urumva batangiriye ku ku rugo, ku nzu, ku bwoko, ubwoko s'ukuvuga ibi bi twihaye byo kuvuga ngo n'Abahutu n'Abatutsi, ubwoko n'ukuvuga abo bita les Clans ibyo byari ubwoko ndetse nkaba bitumye mbereka n'ikindi gitabo kivuga ibye neza.
- Muzungu: Murabona iki gitabo cyitwa Les Clans du Rwanda cyanditswe n'umuzungu, umuzungu witwa Marcel Bertefert. Ikiza cy'iki gitabo n'uko yakoze enquete muri za prefet mu Gihugu hose asanga aa yegeranya amazina y'ayo moko, amoko ijambo ubwoko mu gifaransa bati ni Clans clans cumi n'umunani. Muri ayo moko rero harimo ibyo ibi twise amoko mu bitari byo harimo abahutu harimo abatutsi harimo abatwa mumu buri bwoko.
- Muzungu: Amoko ninkayahe rero? Nguhe nk'urugero nink'Abanyiginya ubwo n'ubwoko, mu banyiginya harimo abatwa, abatutsi, abahutu. Ubwoko n'iki? Harimo Abega, abega harimo abahutu abatutsi abatwa. Abasinga a n'ubwoko harimo abahutu abatutsi abatwa nta bwoko na bumwe butarimwo uu utwo duce twombi ubu rero cya kintu sindavuga cy'abahutu n'abatutsi icyo aricyo, ndaza kukivugira k'umuntu witwa Speek ariko ibyo aribyo byose ntaho bihuriye no kuvuga n'ubwoko by'amaraso.
- Muzungu: ng'uko uko byari bimeze. Ubwoko rero nako umulyango wabaga ufite umutware, umubyeyi yagiraga umutware, abo batware bose rero ba buri mulyango, umulyango n'ukuvuga inzu, ubwoko bama bakaba aribo bategekwa n'umukuru wabooo utegekaaa umulyango we wose akitwa Umwami, umwami n'ukuvuga uwa kwamamara kwama kera n'ikinyarwanda cya kera, kwama ni nko kwamama ni nko kuba icyamamare kuba ikirangirire. Byaratinze rero Umwami w'Abanyiginya witwaga MUKOBANYA, KIGELI MUKOBANYA WA 1.
- Muzungu: yibuka ubwenge bwo kutongera gusangiza gusangira n'abana imbere baragendaga bakigirana bamwe bakaba tuvuge nka nk'Abasinga cyangwa se nka tuvuge nka cyane cyane tuvuge nka ee nko mu Gisaka, mu Gisaka niho byatinze kutaba u Rwanda rwose kuko byabaye u Rwanda kuri Rwabugiri iii Abagesera babazirankende iii. Uwo Mukobanya niwe wa watangiye ubwenge bwo gufata I Gihugu akagiko akagikoroniza agashyiraho abategetsi be, akagenda noneho agira ibintu yegeranya n'utuntu twose nibyo byaje kubyara u Rwanda.
- Muzungu: mbere hose twari uduhugu n'u Rwanda rwabaye u Rwanda rwa rw'Abanyiginya ariko rutari u Rwanda rw'Igihugu ki ki gifata ibindi, hakaba u Rwanda ariko akabana n'abandi, akava inda imwe n'abandi, agaterana n'abandi. Mukobanya niwe wakoranye ibya rusangizi nako ibyo gusangira n'abandi arabyiharira.
- Muzungu: Aho rero niho ijambo ryo gucika u Rwanda ryatangiriye ashinga rero noneho n'u Rwanda rwa Gasabo; ubirebye rero uko nabifatanyije umulyango n'igihugu shema dushyira hamwe ngo byari bimeze bite? Byatangiye ari umulyango, umulyango uvuye ku rugo bimaze kugenda bikuze biba Igihugu cyose biba uduhugu twinshi, Abanyiginya baraza natwa duhugu twinshi baratwegeranya baradutsinda mu ntambara batugira Igihugu cya mugabo umwe.
- Muzungu: Mukobanya niwe wazanye iyo dini yo kuzana Igihugu kimwe, ashyiraho ubutegetsi rero nyine, ubutegetsi sinabisubiramo byose tu uretse umwami yariho agafatanya n'abo basangiye ubutegetsi ni bande? Hari abatware, aba abatware b'ingabo bo rero bagacunga Igihugu cyose.
- Muzungu: ariko mubyerekeye ubukungu bw'igihugu hakabaho abatware b'Umukenke n'ukuvuga abategeka iby'ubutunzi babandi twavuze, hakabaho n'abahinzi bo gutegeka abahinzi akitwa umutware w'ubutaka. Inzego z'ubutegetsi zikaba eshatu uko ari eshatu, ntabwo bigeze bashyiraho ubutegetsi bw'abahigi iii abahigi kenshi ni cyane guhiga bose barahigaga cyane cyane I Bwami niho bahigaga kurusha n'abandi ee ababumbyi nabo barabumbaga nyine bitari ibyo kuvuga ngo n'abatware.
- Muzungu: n'aba vu babumbaga nyine mujye mubyumva. Ubutegetsi rero bubaye ubwo ndaza kuvuga ukuntu baje kubikuraho nyuma, nyuma aho abazungu aho baziye bakuyeho ubwo butegetsi uko ari batatu barabuvunja babuhindura kimwe, bihinduka aba chefs, aba sous chefs n'iki ariko ibyo biraza kuba ibindi. urebye rero n'uko navuga ubutegetsi bw'icyo gihe uko bwari bumeze habaga ikintu rero kijya gusa na democratie kuko Umwami aho bamaze kugira ubutegetsi bumwe aho abanyiginya bamaze kuganza niyo Nganji Karinga.
- Muzungu: Karinga ingoma yabo y'Abanyiginya imaze kuganza izindi zahozeho nazo, zabo Bami bose zabagaho,Inganji Karinga imaze kuganza izindi bashatse ukuntu bafatanya n'imilyango ikomeye, hari imilyango yitwa Ibibanda, Ibibanda n'ababyara Abami. Ubwami bwa kera rero muby'ukuri umwami yavaga mu Banyiginya ariko akagira abamikazi basa, umwamikazi basangiye ubutegetsi wa mwamikazi nawe akagira amoko avamo.
- Muzungu: Mbahe nk'urugero ama abamikazi mpereye nk'ahongaho, bigitangira navuze y'uko umwiru wa mbere yari Umusinga; byatumye rero abamikazi bafatanya ubutegetsi n'aba n'aba n'abanyiginya ba mbere abamikazi bakurikiranye icumi bari abasingakazi barimo Nyamususa umugore wa Gihanga Ngoma Ijana. Baje gusimburwa n'aba n'Abega kuberako hari harabaye ikintu cyaje bise ngo n'ikosa kimwe cyitwa ngo ni Rukumbi yabanje gutabara hanyuma kumuhana rero aba Abamikazi babo baca ku ngoma.
- Muzungu: Kuva kuri Rukumbi rero kuva kuri Ruganzu Bwimba Abasingakazi ntibongeye kuba abami, kuba abamikazi kereka Nyirarumaga niwe tuza kuvuga waje kuba umwami gusa ho, umwamikazi wo gufasha gusa kuko nyine Nyina wa Ruganzu yari yarapfuye. Urumva rero Umwami yabaga Umunyiginya, Abamikazi bakava mu Bibanda, Abasinga habaye icumi.
- Muzungu: Abega habaye icumi hanyuma hajyaho Abakono, hajyaho Abaha, hajyaho Abagesera, hajyaho n'Umuzigaba uwa mbere yari n'Umuzigaba muby'ukuri, ee bwari uburyo bwo bashyiramo akantu kameze nka Democratie y'ubungubu. Urumva rero ni nk'uko sinavuga mu magambo menshi ariko tuvuge ubutegetsi bwa kera ni nk'uko, harimo ikintu cya democratie, harimo ikintu cy'ubumwe, harimo ikintu cyo gushyiraho cyane cyane n'ubutegetsi bwa rusange ubutegetsi bw'ingabo umuntu yabwita administratif iby'ubu ni nka Leta y'ubu ariko hakaba n'ubutegetsi bwerekeye k'ubukungu bw'igihugu iii aborozi n'abahinzi.
- Muzungu: Ibyo nibyo byaje kubyara by'ukuri ayo magambo ngo n'Amoko s'Amoko kuko nta ntawabaga umuhinzi gusa nta n'uwabaga umworozi gusa nta nta n'umulyango wabagamo aborozi gusa undi ngo ubemo abahinzi gusa ibyo n'ukubeshya, wabaga twabaga tuva inda imwe umwe akaba umuhinzi undi akaba umworozi. Ehh ndumva mu magambo make nagirango nahinira ahongaho wenda mwaza kuba mwagira icyo mwabaza muri ibyo.
- Emery: Ehh ubwo rero mumaze kutuganirira aa ku miterere y'umu y'umulyango nyarwanda ehh mwakomojeho mutangi muvuga gato no kubintu ku ehh mitegekere ho gatoya. Nagira ngo rero duse nk'aba nk'abinjira cyane muri iyo mitegekere y'ubutegetsi bw'igihungu. Ehh mwatubwiye ko ubutegetsi bwakomotse, ukuntu abantu bagiye begeranya bava havuye hari umulyango bikagera ku nzu, inzu zikiyegeranya
- Muzungu: Zikaba ubwoko.
- Emery: Zikaba ubwoko, mutubwira mu Ubwoko bw'Abanyiginya kuko aribwo bwa bukomokaho u Rwanda ariko aha muri aka karere hakaba hari harimo andi moko, hari harimo n'ibindi bihugu byinshi ahangaha. Nagirango mutubwire ukuntu noneho abo Banyi ee aa iyo iyo ngoma y'Abanyiginya, icyo Gihugu cy'Abanyiginya cyagiye cyubaka u Rwanda. Ubwo se cyagiye gifata mu ii mu bindi bihugu cyagiye kibifata gute? Ese abafashwe bafatwaga mu buhe buryo? Ese babageneraga iki abandi bafashwe bakashyirwa muri urwo Rwanda?
- Muzungu: Ehh ariko twe nti tujye kubigira birebire ni mu magambo makeya yenda mvuze mu magambo makeya, mvuze ukuntu bagiye babigenza kenshi byabaga mu ntambara uziko mu Rwanda kera hari ikintu kitwaga Ingabo, zitwaga ingabo nyine ziizi zaza mu bibazo by'intambara.
- Muzungu: abanyarwanda bose ba babaga bari mu mitwe y'ingabo, bumvise ko mu Rwanda hahangaye ikintu cy'imbere cy'ubute byose byari bishingiye ku ngabo. Ingabo rero zikaba zirimo imitwe y'ubutegetsi bw'igihugu buri Munyarwanda wese yabaga afite umutwe w'ingabo arimo, ingabo rero zika zifite ibintu byinshi zikora ariko icy'ingezi akaba ari kurwanira Igihugu ariko harimo n'ibindi bikorwa byinshi byinshi nko guhamiriza, nko ku nko gukora n'indi mirimo y'…………. yose ariko hakabaho nyine no kuzarwanirira Igihugu.
- Muzungu: ari ukukirengera ari no kujya kucyungura, kukirengera bagiteye no kucyungura uuhh. Urebye rero Abanyiginya icya icyo barushije abandi ahari n'uko babarushije ubwo bwenge nyine bwo bwo nge bwo kumenya gutu gucunga Igihugu bakabyi bakamenya kurwana. Bagiye rero bafata Ibihugu bito bito bagenda babyongera ku bindi wenda babarusha n'ubutegetsi bwiza nk'uko gusangira nk'uko kuvanga, ehh kuvuga rero ngo ba ba babategekaga bate kugirango babayobore? Icyambere n'uko babasangi baragendaga bakabaka ubutegetsi ariko bakabasangiza.
- Muzungu: bakabasangiza bagashyiraho inzego zikwiye zitunganye urumva shoboye sinashobora kuvuga ukuntu nyine babi tuvuge bashyizemo ukuntu urwego rw'ingabo uko ziteye mu Gihugu hose. Abanyarwanda babaga bafite ikintu cyo kwigisha kurwana kirusha ngirango n'ubu n'akantu kakituba mu maraso, bari bafite ikintu cyo korora bakunda bari bazi ukuntu borora inka rwose kuburyo nubu tura turacyabifite bamwe, wenda ibyo guhinga nibikeya ariko nabyo bari bafite ibihugu byinshi nk'aho bagendaga bagenda bashaka nk'umuntu arebye nk'amateka y'imyaka.
- Muzungu: abanyarwa, imyaka y'ihinga bagiye baza bajyaga bajya mu ntambara ariko bakagenda bazana n'utwo babonye ahandi badupapira batuzana batubwira ukuntu ama nk'ibijumba byaje, ukuntu bazanye amashaza, ukuntu ubona ibintu, ibintu byinshi ngirango n'ubutegetsi bwabo bwatumye ba ba barusha abandi kwiganza. Sinabisobanura rwose ngo mbone uko,, tutabyirirwamo. Kuko hari ibindi bikurikira kandi biza ku ngirango bifata igihe kirekire.
- Emery: Ikibazo gikurikiyeho rero tura turajya ku cyiciro cy'amateka mu gihe cy'ubukoroni ariko mbere mbere y'uko tujya mu gihe cy'ubukoroni hari akabazo nashakaga kubaza numva kaba ka kasasira ikibazo tugiye kujyaho cy'ubukoroni. Eh uko amateka atubwira atubwira ko u Rwanda rwaba rwaratangiriye.
- Emery: hariya rwa Rwagasabo ari agasozi kamwe. Ako Gasozi ki ka Gasabo nako muri bugire icyo mukatubwiraho, abazungu bakaba barasanze u Rwanda rugera ku kiyaga cya Rwincanzizu, u Rwanda rwarabaye runini harimo rugera na za Masisi ari hanini cyane. Ubwo rero nagira ngo wenda mbere y'uko munakubita kuku dutangira ikibazo ki amateka y'u Rwanda hageze igihe cy'abakoroni muwi 1897. mwatubwira iyo miterere ukuntu u Rwanda rwagendaga ruba u Rwanda koko rutera imbere, abantu barwinjiramo bashyashya, u Rwanda rwari rugeze mu bahunde, rugeze mu bantu ba bahe na kure icyo.
- Muzungu: Ariko ibyiza n'uko tuvuga ibibazo tu tubigira bikeya kuko ngira ngo urugendo ni rurerure. Tuvuge nkabiriya byo kungura u Rwanda, programme yo kungura u Rwanda, programme n'ukuvuga ko nagomba guhera ku kuko batangiye ko mu kinyeja uko bari bameze n'ibintu bijya bya bijya kure urumva? Ehh urabona iki gitabo ndagirango wenda bibe na na n'impamvu yo kukibabwira, maze kubabwira ibitabo ngirango bitatu cy'amoko iki, urabona iki gitabo kii L'histoire du Rwanda Précolonial nacyanditse hashize imyaka mikeya mirongo ibihumbi bibiri naka na gatatu, niho negeranyije ibintu byinshi n'ibitari muri iki cya Kagame ehh.
- Muzungu: Iyo ubigenzuye rero iyo ubonye umwanya umuntu akaba yareba burya ibyagiye, ha hari ukuntu Abanyiginya bari bafite mu miterere yabo mu bwenge bwabo biri mu mu mu byo bise Ubwiru, ubwiru n'ikintu umuntu yakwita nk'ubungubu nka Constitution, reba Constitutionnel; n'igitabo ndiho nandika ubungubu kigiye gusohoka. Muri icyo gitabo rero iyo ugisomye ubona amategeko bagenderagaho kugira ngo bacunge igihugu ari ukukirengera ari ukucyungura, kucyungura mu mu mu buryo bwo ku kukibonera ibindi bihugu, kucyungura mu buryo bwo kubona kugitunga, kucyungura no mbese no mu muco.
- Muzungu: Ibyo rero bikaba mu bise inzira, inzira zikaba 18, ubwiru buri mu nzira 18 muri izo nzira 18 nkubwire harimo 10 zose zerekeye ibyerekeye ubukungu. Tuvuge nk'iyo imvura, iyo imvura yabaye nyinshi ikaba urushyana bati hari inzira ya kivu, inzira ya kivu rero n'uburyo Umwami yagombaga gukora imihango ituma inzi umvura ikama, hakaba n'inzira ya Rukungungu iyo habaga habaye amapfa izuba ryacanye bagasha ukuntu rero Umwami azashaka, azagira imihango izamunura imvura, bari bafite ukuntu basenga bagasenga Imana imvura ikazama, igihe cyose habaye ikibazo.
- Muzungu: Umwami yari afite ukuntu agira kugirango gikire. Ibyinshi rero biganisha ku bukire bw'isi bw'u Rwanda, hakabaho inzira y'intambara, hakabaho inzira ya Muryamo, mbese hakabaho muri ubwo bwiru harimwo tuvuge nk'ama amategeko, des lois des lois cadres mu kifaransa ki amategeko bakurikizaga kugirango barwanye ibiza biteye igihugu cyangwa bashake ukuntu bazungura u Rwanda kuburyo bwose bukwiye ii ee ubwo rero muri ibyo harimo nka nk'uburyo bw'Abami uko baku bakuranywaga nibyo nakubwiye ni birebire umuntu abikurikiranye kereka nk'uwafata nk'igitabo agasoma.
- Muzungu: Tuvuge nku Abami bari bafite, Abami bari bafite ukuntu bakuramwa mu mazina no mushyingano. Hari Abami babiri uwitwaga Kigeli n'uwitwaga Mibambwe akazi kabo cyane cyane kari ako kwa kwagura u Rwanda. Kigeli niko kazi ke iyo yimaga ingoma yagombaga kwagura u Rwanda n'umuhungu we Mibambwe akazakurikirwa n'uwitwa Yuhi, Yuhi akaba uzana amahoro n'umutekano akaba ndetse uza mu bintu by'imihango n'ibindi byose bituma nko kuruhuka n'ibiki byose. Hakabaho na n'abandi rero ba b'Amata uwitwa Kirima n'uwitwa Mutara bazana uburumbuke mu gihugu n'icyo gituma nyine naho mutara nyine ni Mutara h'inka niho ririya zina ryaturutse n'iki.
- Muzungu: Urumva rero bi bi biganishije mu bintu byerekeye uko igihugu cyagombaga kujya mbere. Ubwo rero wabazaga ukuntu ba Abami bagiye tubigire nka nko muri abo bami rero abagiye kure muri ibyo wavugaga bunguye u Rwanda ni ba mbere hari abitwaga izina rya Ruganzu bari ku baba naryo ryari iry'abarwanyi Ruganzu, uwa mbere Ruganzu Mpimba na Ruganzu Ndori. Iryo zina baje kuri kura mu mateka kuko rya abaryiswe bose ba ryabateye ubuvukasi, ryatumye ba ba ba bagwa ku ku ku gahinga ii umwe yabaye Mutabazi Ruganzu Mpimba undi baramwishe Ruganzu Ndoli babakura mu mubare kuko ritewe n'ibyago ubuvukasi.
- Muzungu: Hasigara irya ki irya iryari surnom ya Kigeli, abo rero bagiye cyane cyane uwa kabiri Kigeli Nyamuheshera nkubwira tub twavugaga Nyamuheshera niwe wagiye kure yageze kuri Rwicanzige ariko undi ni Ruganzu, Ruganzu Ndoli niwe wawa wagize ibintu byinshi wageze aho za Congo.
- Muzungu: niwe wageze hariya za Bukavu yageze ku kuri ariko yari agiye agiye kurwanya kurwanya rero aba aba Abashi dore ko bitwaga Abanyabungo kera. Urumva rero nk'ibyo urumva hari Yuhi Gahima niwe wafashe ziriya nkiga ehh n'abandi urumva rero umuntu atangiye kuvuga buri muntu uko yagiye abigira byaba birebire sinabivuga ngo mbirangize urumva, ehh ariko urumva ko bari bafite iyo gahunda yo kwagura u Rwanda kandi nicyo bivuga niyo urebye mu ndagano zabo n'utekereza amazina yabo niko bari bameze rero muri gahunda niko bimeze. Tuvuge izina ry'u Rwanda na Kigali na Gasabo ayo n'amazina aritiranywa muby'ukuri kandi yose afite iyo programme yo ku urumva Rwanda rwa n'ukuvuga nyine u Rwanda.n'ukuvuga ni nin ni n'igihugu kitagira imipaka iyo bavuga ngo n'u Rwanda rwo, haba iyo umuntu akubaza ati urwo Rwanda rw'iburayi rumeze rute?
- Muzungu: u Rwanda, anda mu kinya, anda n'ukuvuga n'ukuvuga isi itagira imipaka, aanda ii. ehh Kigali n'ikigali n'igihugu nyine kigali kitagira imipaka nyine, ni kigali kimwe rwose niko bakise. Umunye y'uko gapi capital ya mbere ya yaba ni kigali nyine Rwoya ishinze hariya mu mu bushorishori bwa Kigali hariya hejuru mu bitaka mu biti hejuru hariya. Gasabo nyine neni n'igisabo nyine gicundira u Rwanda urumva nyine cy'amata nyine nabyo ni ukuvuga u Rwanda nyine; ni n'igicundira u Rwanda, n'igisabo nyine, n'igisabo gicundira u Rwanda amata. Hariya ha mu mu Muhazi ureba n'umwaro wayo.
- Emery: Eh murakoze, dukomeje mu kiganiro tugirana na Padiri Muzungu eh twari turangije kuganira ku sinavuga ngo turarangije nyine y'uko dukurikije gahunda twihaye, twaha noneho twasaga nk'abagira ganira ku Rwanda mu gihe cy'ubukoroni. Twagirango mutuganirireho ku Rwanda mu bukoroni mu gihe mbese u Rwanda rugezwemo n'Abazungu.
- Muzungu: Eeye icyo n'ikibazo cyiza kirakurikira ibyo twari tumaze kuvuga, ni nka kwa kundi nagirango ngiremo inzego ebyeri hari ibyerekeye ii aa abaturage, abanyarwanda uko abakoroni babafashe n'ubutegetsi bw'abanyarwanda uko abakoroni babutwaye ngirango nibyo byiza. Eh umuntu yahera ndetse ku baturage b'u Rwanda abakoroni bamaze kuhagera babafashe bate? Eh aho niho hari umuzi w'ibyago twanyuzemo by'ukuri kubera ko abazungu baje hano mu Rwanda bafite ibitekerezo bakuye ahandi.
- Muzungu: Hari umuzungu witwa w'Umwongereza witwa Capitain John Honing Speek yaje muri Afrika yacu yo muri aka karere za Ethiopia agerayo za Buganda abona abantu b'abahima, b'ababito, ageze ino abona n'abanyarwanda cyane cyane abona aba Abatutsi basa nyine n'abo Bahima aba b'aborozi. Amaze kubibona atyo rero yibwira y'uko Abatutsi atari Abanyarwanda ari abantu baturutse aho nyine ruguru iyo muri za Ethiopia, mu Bagara, ngo abanya basa n'Abagara mu by'ukuri ari aborozi, ari abantu banywa amata.
- Muzungu: amata burya afite ikintu ashyira ku muntu uyanywa. Azana rero bya bitekerezo by'uko abanyarwanda atari bamwe atari bamwe ko Abatutsi ari abantu baturutse iyo ruguru ko abandi Bahutu ari nk'abandi birabura baturutse hiryo iyo hose, azana n'icyo gitekerezo cy'uko bafite aho bavuye atari abaturage b'ino, niwe wadukanye icyo gitekerezo ubundi twari tu mu kanya ngirango nababwiye y'uko ubundi abantu bose baturutse ino, Adam n'umunyarwanda n'ako s'umuti n'umunyafurika wenda n'umukenya cyangwa n'umutanzaniya cyangwa se nu abisinya n'iki.
- Muzungu: azana ibyo rero abikase atyo. Eh abandi Bapadiri n'abandi bazungu bari kumwe ba ba babifatira hejuru, yani yasubiye iwabo yandika igitabo cyerekeye amateka y'urwo rugendo yagiriye muri Afrika ndetse umutwe wa wa cyenda w'icyo gitabo cye amateka y'u Rwa nako ya y'imiterere ye y'imigendere ye hano muri Afrika abyita mu gifaransa AU SOURCE DU NIL, igitabo cyandikwa mu bufaransa kitwa Au Source du Nil.
- Muzungu: Hano ndafite igitabo cy'umuzungu witwa Alexandre Arnord Umupadiri wera, yanditse iki gitabo kitwa LES PERES BLANCS AU SOURCE DU NIL; n'umwe mu bantu bafashe icyo gitekerezo cya SPEEK nawe akigira nk'ihame ndetse Speek yari yavuze ngo yavugaga ati ndatekereza ko, cyari igitekerezo ariko abandi bose bakoporoye baje bagira bati si ugutekereza niko bimeze Abatutsi s'abirabura b'ukuri n'abantu baturutse ruguru iriya.
- Muzungu: Hari n'ikindi gitabo cy'uwitwa Albert Pages kiwa AU ROYAUME HAMITE AU CENTRE DE L'AFRIQUE, ubwo abo bose n'aho bashingira Au Royaume Hamite au Centre de l'Afrika aba hamite naho rero navuze rero y'uko abahano ingoma ya hano y'aba y'Abanyiginya cyangwa se Rwanda y'Abatutsi ariko s'Abatutsi mu by'ukuri n'ingiro y'Abanyarwanda.
- Muzungu: ngo ni Hamite ababihimbye, n'abandi rero bose baza bakurikiye icyo gitekerezo baza noneho kutubyaza amoko uhh ibitabo byose byanditswe cyane ku Rwanda ni na byinshi. N'ikindi muri ibyo n'icyanditswe n'uwitwa Rochanoine de l'Axge icyo muzacyumva cyaba nacyo baracyandika nyine. Bose rero bagahamya ko abanya uwanditse iki gitabo wese akavuga ngo u Rwanda rurimo amoko atatu niko batangira bandika bose bihinduka ihame.
- Muzungu: amoko atatu hari ABATWA hari ABAHUTU hari ABATUTSI ba niwe wazanye niyo niyo n'icyo gitekerezo cya cy'uko rero batava hamwe, batatu ati n'abino bahimbye noneho ntibanibuka ko kuva mu kinyejana cya karindwi bari batuye aha ndetse ko aba mbere ko ndetse aba aba aba mbere ari bari Aborozi umuntu yasa nk'aho yavuga ko Abatutsi ari aborozi abo bise abatutsi ari aborozi, abo bise Abahutu ari abahinzi, abo bise ari Abahigi niba ariko nabyita kandi bose barahigaga hariho abahiga hari iki, ariko noneho babi ba Speek abigize atyo bose babyumva gutyo biba ihame. Icyo nicyo kintu rero cyaje kuba umwanda.
- Muzungu: cyaje kuba umwanda cyaje gukurikizwa n'abantu bose. Abakoroni rero baje, baje biraza kubyara n'ikindi kibazo kinavunisha rero urumva, baje bafatanyije abakoroni baje bari amoko abiri : hari abakoroni ba bo nita b'Amapantalon n'ukuvuga baba Basiviri ariko hari n'abakoroni b'Amakanzu n'uko ari n'Abapadiri, baraje rero bafatanya n'Abapadiri ndetse bashaka kugira bati mudufashe gutegeka iyi Afrika neza mutubwira abantu, abirabura twakwifashisha. Maze ubwo aba abandi bati na hari ikiruhije se? Turabazi.
- Muzungu: Hari abantu, Abatutsi bamaze guhamya ko ari ubwoko kandi byo umuntu wabihimbye, mwifatanye n'Abatutsi bazi gutegeka aribo mugira abafasha banyu. Nibwo rero haje kuba ivugurura ry'ubutegetsi muri makumyabiri na karindwi na gatandatu na karindwi ry'umu Resident wi umu resident witwaga Mortohani, akuraho haho hariho aba sous chefs ba mbere bari batangiye nyine b'Abadage a icyo gihe uwo mugabo yanyaze aba sous chefs b'Abatwa mirongo itatu, kera abategetsi ntibagombaga ngo abahutu batu a e muri iyo reforme yanyaze aba aba aba sous chefs b'Abatwa liste yabo iriho na hariya i Shyorongi hari umutwa barabanyaze.
- Muzungu: Banyaga Abahutu bose uwitwa Umuhutu wese n'Abatutsi bagufi bose hasigaza Abatutsi bo hejuru ; nibo bitwaga ngo n'abantu bazi gutegeka bamenyereye gutegeka.
- Muzungu: bashobora gufasha Abazungu kubategekera bo bakicara bakaryoherwa bakamererwa neza. Urumva ibyo bintu rero, ibyo rero babifashwamo n'Abapadiri ho gato kuberako Abapadiri nibo bari bashizwe kwigisha abirabura mu mashuli, kuvura ndetse no ni nabo batangiye no gukora utuntu twa developpement nko kubaka amazu ehh nkaza Missioni bubakaga nibo bazanye amatafari nibo batangiye no kubaka imihanda n'iki. Abapadiri rero urabona rero impamvu banabafashe n'uko nyine bitwaga ngo bazanye ubukrisitu baje kugira gute, baraza rero batangira kwigisha imilyango batyo. Ehh kwa gukoresha abaturage muri ibyo by'amashuli n'iki biganisha nyine no gusha n'amashuli abyara ubutegetsi, biza kugera igihe noneho ehh abakoroni baza no mu butegitsi kuko ba ba babupanze.
- Muzungu: Umva uko bagize abaturage aba abategetsi se bo abanyarwanda babafashe bate ? nibyo ngira ngo nabyo ngire. Murabyumva baraje rero icyo bakoze n'iki cya mbere ? n'ugukuraho ubutegetsi nyine bwa kinyarwanda, Umwami bamwita ubundi Umwami niwe wategekaga i Gihugu noneho baramuhindura bamukuraho bati Umwami hano twavugaga Umwami w'Abanyarwanda ahinduka Léopard w'Umuzungu, uwacu bamwita ngo ni Mwami, bakaba bavuga le Roi w'Umuzungu et le Mwami ariko uwacu nta akavugwa Le Mwami ehh. Abategetsi baba baba abakozi ndetse kugira ngo mbigaragaze ko aribyo bitana n'uwashidikanya ntashidikanye .
- Muzungu: Umwami wari uhari MUSINGA atabyumvise neza baramwirukana agwa ku gahinga murabizi uko yapfuye yaguye i Congo baramwirukanye ajya i Kamembe ndetse basanze atari kure bihagije bamwohereza i Kamembe nako i Congo yaguye MOBA uwo n'Umwami.
- Muzungu: Undi bashyizeho umuhungu we RUDAHIGWA yagombye rero kwemera y'uko agiye kuyoboka Abazungu ndetse abatizwa. Musenyeri Classy yabigizemo ari ukwirukana MUSINGA ari gushyiraho RUDAHIGWA musenyeri Classy yabigezemo uruhare cyane ndetse no gutonesha Abatutsi icyo gihe abitwa ngo n'aba cya ariko Abatutsi bari aba aba bategetsi bo hejuru gusa. Rubanda rugufi, abatutsi bagufi bahinga bagira bate ntibari ntibitwaga Abatutsi ndetse noneho ibyo ari byari abantu byari imi imyuga babihi babishyiran' amategeko, babishyira no mu mpapuro.
| Identifier mike: | Kmc00015/kmc00015-vid1.mp4 |
| Title: | Oral Testimony Of MUZUNGU Bernardini |
| Description: | The oral testimony of Rwandan elder MUZUNGU Benardini recorded by the Kigali Genocide Memorial in Kigali, Rwanda, with the assistance of the National Museum of Butare, Rwanda. In two separate recordings, the testimony describes the political and cultural history of ethnicity in Rwanda. It is given in Kinyarwanda. |
| Media format: | mini-DV tape |
| Language: | kin |