Oral Testimony of MUREBWAYIRE Josephine

  
  
  
  
Layout:

Get the Flash Player to see this player.

Mark Video Segment:
begin
end
play
[Hide] Copy and paste this link to an email or instant message:
[Hide] Right click this link and add to bookmarks:

Metadata

Id:Kmc00005
Title:Oral Testimony of MUREBWAYIRE Josephine
Sequence:1 of 2
Abstract:The oral testimony of MUREBWAYIRE Josephine, a survivor of the Genocide Against the Tutsi and Vice-President of widow survivor organization AVEGA Agahozo, recorded by the Kigali Genocide Memorial in Kigali, Rwanda. The testimony discusses life before the Genocide, events leading up to the Genocide, hiding during the Genocide, surviving a mass execution, death of family members, searching for remains of family members after the Genocide, memorials, forgiveness, faith, and life after the Genocide. The testimony is given in Kinyarwanda, with Kinyarwanda and English transcripts and English subtitles available.
Contributors: Aegis Trust (UK)
Kigali Genocide Memorial
Publisher:Kigali Genocide Memorial
Interview Date: 2007-03-05
Language:kin
Rights:Kigali Genocide Memorial, Kigali, Rwanda
Subject Headings: Genocide--Rwanda--History--20th century
Testimony--Rwanda
Tutsi (African people)--Interview
Tutsi (African people)--Crimes against--Rwanda
Rwanda--Ethnic Relations--History--20th Century
Rwanda--History--Civil War, 1994--Atrocities
Creator: MUREBWAYIRE, Josephine
Formats: mini-DV tape
MovingImage

Continues with Part 2 of the Oral Testimony of MUREBWAYIRE Josephine.

Dock windowUbuhamya bwanditse
Martin:Uyu munsi n’itariki ejanu z’ukwezi kwa gatatu ibihumbi bibiri na karindwi ndi hano ku kimironko kwa murebwayire Josephine. Aho tugiye kuganira amateka y’ibintu byabaye muri jenocide ….. Twagirango mutangire mutwibwira. Josephine:Nitwa murebwayire Josephine ntuye mu kimironko mu kagali ka nyagatovu mu karere ka gasabo. Martin: Ese twagirango noneho utubwire mbere ya jenocide itaraba umuryango wanyu mwari mubayeho gute ese wari ufite umuryango ungana iki? Martin:Udusobanurire umuryango uko wanganaga abana umugabo noneho nurangiza uze kutwereka ishusho cyangwa se isura yuko uwo muryango wanyu wari ubayeho mbere ya jenocide. Josephine:Mbere ya jenocide twari dutuye ahantu bita imasoro icyo gihe bahitaga muri secteur ya ndera. Komine rubungo niho twari dutuye ubu ni akarere ka gasabo nari mfite umugabo n’abana batandatu. Abahungu batatu n’abakobwa batatu twari dufite nundi mwana twareraga mwishywa w’umugabo wanjye. Twari tubanye neza twari dufite urugo rwiza twari dufite imibereho ishimishije umugabo wanjye yarakora. Yarikoreraga yakoraga akazi kubukanishi ari umu tekinisiye nange ndi umu maman w’abana ndi mu rugo ariko mfite indi mirimo nkora kuko twari dufite na butike. Ncuruza dufite n’isambu nziza dufite inka ndeberera imirimo yose yo murugo twari twifashije. Yeee hanyuma abana bange bari bakuru bari bamaze gukura bari muri sogonderi umukuru yari ari mu wa kane sogonderi umuto yari mu wa kane primaire. Hanyuma nari mfite n’abandi bavandimwe twabanaga basaza banjye babiri. Umwe twari tumaze kumushyingira atuye hafi yacu mbese twari umuryango munini ushimishije hanyuma jenocide yatangiye mubyukuri muri mirongo icyenda nibwo twumvise ko inkotanyi zateye. Bavuga ko zaturutse ibyumba ku itariki ya mbere z’ukwacumi mirongo cyenda twese twabyumvise kimwe n’abaturanyi bacu ntabwo twari tuzi ibyo aribyo. Ariko itariki ya karindwi z’ukwacumi mirongo icyenda niho umugabo wanjye baje kumufatako ari ikitso k’inkotanyi. Basanze atari no murugo kuko babanje kuvuga ko nta Bantu bagomba kuva murugo ariko twebwe kuberako twari dufite iyo butike yari iriho musaza wanjye. Azamuka agiye kureba uko bimeze kuri iyo butike abaje kumufata basanze arijyewe uri murugo n’abana. Ni njyewe babanje gutwara ariko babanje gukora ibindi bitari byiza gusaka gukubita,bakajya bankubita ibibuno by’imbunda bambaza ngo imbunda twari dufite irihe? Ubwo ku itariki enye bari baraye barasa baravuga ngo nitwebwe twaraye turasa mu mugi wa Kigali. Bambaza imbunda barayibura ari basanga twari dufite jumeri umugabo wanjye yajyana guhiga yajyaga ajyana n’abapadiri baba seriziyani. Bayibonye bavuga yuko ariyo tureberamo inkotanyi baba babonye urwitwazo hari gurude za mazi abana bajyanagamo amazi nubwo hari hafi ariko hari ubwo batwaragamo amazi. Bavugako ari izabasirikari barankubita ariko bita babaje cyane bambaza ngo ninerekane ibyo nahishe ngo ninerekane izo nkotanyi. Imbunda zabo hanyuma babibuze barantwara mu modoka bambwira ngo nibamubona barandekura turazamuka tugeze hafi yiyo butike turamubona. Ndababwira nti dore umugabo wange nguriya araje barahagarara baramubwira ngo niyinjiremo ajye kubaha imbunda nabemereye ngo ariko njyewe nanze kuzibaha atampaye uruhushya. Ndavuga nti murambeshyeye barambwira ngo ninsohoke nsange abana ngo we baraza kumugarura. Umugabo baramujyana nange ndamanuka nsanga abana ariko ubona ko abaturanyi bacu babonyeko koko turi inyenzi ako kanya batangira kuduha akato. Ndagenda njya murugo negeranya ibintu byose bari bavangavanze negeranya amasaka negeranya n’amasukari ntabwo bagira gahunda. Nuko birangije abana ndabegeranya ndabahumuriza ndababwira naringiye nange na papa yagiye nubu bagaruka bakantwara ariko muhure. Twari abantu basenga njyewe nari umuntu wemera nkumvako nibibaye byose Imana iba ibizi ndabahumuriza ndababwira nti muhumure natanagaruka muzabaho nzajya mbakorera icyo ngomba kubakorera. Nka maman wanyu ariko ubwo sigeze nemerako yagiye atari bugaruke namaze iminsi ibiri yose nteka nkashyira ibiryo mu kabati mvuga ngo araje araje. Nta muntu wari ukigera murugo yewe nuwo negeraga wabonaga afite ubwoba yuko ndibumukoreho. Nuko nkajya mbyuka ngenda murugo hariya irubungo ni kure ya Kigali nkabura umbwira ati araha naha. Bigeze mu kwezi kwa cumi na biri baza kutubwirako twazajya kubaza kuri seyiseyeri bakatubwira amakuru y’abantu bacu bafunze. Sinari nahazi nzakujyayo umuntu aranyobora icyo gihe narayobye ntungukira kwa perezida habyarimana hariya mu kiyovu. Abasirikare banyicaza hasi bambaza ibyangombwa bambaza indangamuntu nuko barambwira ngo ndi inyenzi ndabahakanira ko ntariyo. Barambwira bati ugiye he nti ngiye kuri seyiseyeri bati ubwo ufite inyenzi ubwo ufite ibyitso nti n’umuntu wampamagaye ushaka kumpa akazi. Nuko ndagenda bambwira ngo ningende nikoreye amaboko ngende ndirimba ko nta nzira iri aho. Ngenda mbivuga ariko uwo musirikari arahanyereka arahangeza mpageze rero ndabaza barambwira bari reka turebe niba ari muri computer sinarinzi na computer icyo aricyo. Barareba barambwira bati ntawe twabonye kuri liste y’abandi bati ubanza yarapfuye. Nararize cyane haza umuzungukazi arambwira ati ko urira niki ndamubwira nti ngewe bari bambwiye ngo iyo umuntu aje hano bamubwira amakuru y’umuntu we iyo afunze. Nti umugabo wanjye baramutwaye none barambwiye ngo ntawe arambwira ati noneho genda nyuma y’iminsi itatu uzagaruke kureba ndagenda. Nyuma y’iminsi itatu naragarutse arambwira ngo nimusigire amazina ngo azambariza naragarutse nsanga umugabo yanyandikiye nyine ambwira amakuru ye nyine ko ari muri gereza. Hariya 1930 natangiye kujya njyayo ngirango ndamusura ariko yarinze afungurwa nyuma ya mezi atandatu ntaramubona kimwe n’abandi. Ntabwo abantu bacu twababonaga baravugaga ngo nituzane ibintu babashyire tukajyayo kuwa kane wa nyuma w’ukwezi. Icyo tujyanye tukagihereza aba suruveya ariko baducunaguza ariko badukubita ntiwamenyaga niba byamugezeho cyangwa bitamugezeho. Yafunguwe yari amazemo amezi atandatu araza tuba murugo umuntu akibaza ese bizagenda bite ariko tubona habaye agahenge umuntu asubira mubuzima busanzwe. Bigeze muri mirongo icyenda na kabiri nibwo twatangiye kumva bishe za bugesera bigogwe akavuga ati ubanza bitazagera hano mbese tukumva ninko gutoranya nk’abagabo. Ukavuga uti noneho nagenda ntagaruka ariko tukumva bitazafata intera ndende nkiyo byafashe muri mirongo icyenda na kane. Yarongeye asubira ku kazi arakora nkuko bisanzwe hanyuma rero bihita bigera muri mirongo icyenda na kane biba uko byagenze. Martin:Hanyuma mirongo icyenda na kane abantu bavuga ko iriya ndege ya habyarimana ikimara kumanuka aribwo jenocide yatangiye yo gutsemba uabantu no kumaraho. Ariko uko yagiye itangira byaterwaga na karere ese wowe iwanyu ahantu mwari mutuye ese mwabwiwe niki ko jenocide yatangiye ese mwaba mwaramenyeko iyo ndege ya habyarimana yaguye. Ese byabagezeho bite twagirango udusobanurire? Josephine:Twebwe aho twari dutuye hari hateganye na kanombe mubyukuri ari mu kabande ariko ibyaberga ikanombe washoboraga kubibona. Indege yarahanutse ntitwamenya ibyo aribyo ariko twumva ikintu kiraturitse hari ni joro twiryamiye nta mashanyarazi twari dufite ngo turatarama cyane. Twari turyamye ariko kwa kundi abantu baba bakiri maso abantu baganira ntitwabyitaho turakomeza turiryamira. Saa kumi nimwe umugabo yafunguye radio twumva harimo musique classique aravuga ati habaye cout d’etat igihe tugishaka kubiganiraho ngo tubijyeho impaka. Baba bacishijeho itangazo niba ar’ingabo niba ari irya perezidanse ivugango indege yari itwaye umukuru w’igihugu yahanutse. Ubwoba buratwica turabyuka ndamubwira nti turashize arambwira ati reka reka ati uwaduhigaga arapfuye none ngo turashize ndamubwira nti oya nti ntabwo dukize ahubwo turashize. Igihe tukibijya impaka tumva abantu barakomanze kurugi rwo mugikari ndabyuka ndagenda nkinguye nkubitana n’abasirikari baje iwacu. Mu byukuri barabeshya ntabwo jenocide yatangiye muri mirongo icyenda na kane kuko iyo itangira muri mirongo icyenda na kane ntabwo baba bamenye ako kanya. Ngo barajya kwa nde barica kwande ahubwo babiteguye kera indege iba imbarutso. Gusa wo kugirango barangize umurimo wabo ariko ntabwo aribwo jenocide yatangiye baritoje bakora gahunda neza ahubwo mvuga ko uwo munsi aribwo bayinonosoye. Ni nabwo jenocide yarangiye nubwo aribwo yatangiye ubwo abasirikari baraje bazana n’umwana w’iwacu aje kubayobora. Bamufashe munzira yari umwana w’abatutsi kuko hahigwaga abatutsi ariko niwe wabazanye bari bafite liste y’abantu benshi ariko ari twebwe turi ku isonga. Baraza nkinguye nyine turakubitana barambwirango mwishimye se ngo abantu bahanuye indege y’umukuru w’igihugu barihe hehe? Ndavuga nti se bari hano ngo ariko mwishimye nti se twishimye umuntu yishimira ko undi yapfuye. Ngo nti mwamwangaga se nti se tumwanga turamuzi cyangwa we aratuzi nti ntabwo twishimye nti twabimenye nkuko abandi bose babimenye. Ntabwo byadushimishije ntawishimirako undi yapfuye ngo kandi arimwe mwamuhanuye ngo kandi inyenzi zamuhanuye ari zenewanyu. Ngo ubu se inyenzi zamuhanuye si zenewanyu ntiziri ahangaha ngo umugabo wawe ari heahe ngo mutwereke aho aryamye turajyana mucyumba ndamubereka. Bahita bamfata bafata n’abana bose baragenda badukingirana mugikoni hanze n’abakozi bamaze kudukingiranamo bagaruka munzu bamusangamo baramubwira bati. Duhe amafaranga ati nta mafaranga mfite bati urayaduha ati ubu se ko musanze ndyamye ngaho nimuyashake ubwo cyakora urabyumva ntibari kumureka baramukubise amafaranga yari afite arayabaha. Baramubwira bati umugore wawe ashobora kuba abitse amafaranga menshi abagore nibo babika amafaranga. Baraza barankingurira abana barongera barabakingirana ndagenda bati duhe amafranga umugabo wawe avuzeko ari wowe uyabitse. Nti nta mafaranga mfite rwose bati duhe ndababwira nti se ubundiko mwaje mufite ibyo mushaka mwakwihaye ibyo mushaka ariko mukatubisa. Nuko bafata ibibabangukiye baragenda barangije baravuga ngo yemwe twari tuje kwishakira ibintu ngo ababica bari inyuma. Bahita bagenda bamaze kugenda bimaze kuba hafi saa tatu abantu bo kugasozi ka batutsi abagore babo bose tubona baramanutse baje iwacu. Twari dufite urugo runini cyane ndababwira nti se ko muje hano muziko hano ariho ibintu bicikira bwa mbere nitwe batwaye mu byitso murajya he. Nitwe babanje bwa mbere bati oya wenda dupfane cyangwa bigenda ukundi ariko turaguma hano. Ubwo abagabo bo bari bataratekereza ibintu byo guhunga tubaye aho ngaho bigeze nko mu ma saa sita saa saba gutyo tubona abantu benshi. Baragenda kugasozi ko hakurya yacu baturutse za remera bafite ibikapu ari benshi turavuga tuti natwe duhunge ariko abagabo barasigara. Nabasaza banjye babiri n’abahungu bange babiri bakuru basigara murugo ndagenda n’abana batoya abana banjye bane nako gakobwa twareraga nabo badamu twari kumwe. Tugeze hakurya abantu batangira kudukumira batubuza kugenda naho zari interahamwe zihunze inkotanyi i remera. Kuko ntitwari tuzi ibyo aribyo dutangira gutatana bamwe bagaca murutoki abandi bakagenda urumva twavuye murugo ari ku manywa ariko twageze ahantu twashakaga kujya indera ariko biratunanira duhura n’umuntu aratubwira ati hariya hari bariyeri. Abandi barakomeza bajya ahantu hitwa ijurwe ngewe n’abana tujya ahantu hari imyumbati twihishamo tubonye imodoka y’abapolisi tubamo tugeze k’umugoroba hatakibona. Turagenda noneho yanzira y’indera turayireka dufata inzira y’ahantu hitwa i musave wari bwije hatabona dusanga abantu bose niho bahungiye hari hara mashuri. Mbwira abantu twari turi kumwe nti nanjye nimunyicire ririya shuri nange nigiremo n’abana ndabona hariya huzuye. Naho ubwo ndabwira interahamwe nziko ari abantu b’iwacu duturanye ishuri bararyishe turaramo n’abakozi. N’abandi bana babaturanyi mu gitondo hafi saa mbiri mbona abandi baratetse nta kintu nari najyanye cyakora nari natwaye isukari yo nari nayibutse jya gutira isafuriya. Kugirango ntekere abana icyayi mvuye gutira ya safuriya barambwira ngo haje imodoka yuzuye interahamwe. Yasafuriya ndayita noneho nsa nugenda mpambiranya igitenge kuri buri mwana kugirango ntaza kubata munzira. Kuberako narimfite souvenir mbi cyane ngewe natakaye mu ishyamba iwacu bahunga muri mirongo itandatu na gatatu. Ntoragurwa n’abantu noneho ngahora numva umwana wange murekuye nawe yatakara ubwo ndabakuruye tugeze imbere gato duhura n’imodoka y’umuhungu w’iwacu ariko nawe yari interahamwe. Yari umushoferi w’imodoka ya komini yari aje gutwara umuryango we wari uraho ngaho twari twahararanye. Mbona ndamuzi noneho ndamubwira nti none se nange mwanshyizemo mukantwara n’abana, ancira mu maso arambwira ngo urajya hehe se ko akanyu kashobotse ubwo arabapakiye baragiye. Nanjye ndakomeje nkururana n’abana tugenda n’amaguru tugana indera tugeze mu nzira ahantu bita imusave ugiye kugera indera. Duhura n’imodoka irimo burugumesitiri wa rubungo ari kumwe n'undi mugabo w'iwacu nawe waruje kureba umuryango we wari uraho ngaho abana twari twararanye. Nti abana bagiye nti bababwiye ko maman wabo ariho nti abana bagiye nuko adushyira mu modoka aratujyana atugeza indera kuri paruwasi. Aravuga ati umugabo wawe naba bahungu bawe bari indera kuri paruwasi ngwino mbagushyire turagenda tutaragera kuri paruwasi tugera ahantu hitwaga mugahoromani tuhasanga bariyeri. Hari hariho abantu baba polisi n’abandi baturage umwe afata icumu agiye kurintera aramubwira ati nurimutera nange ndakurasa baratureka turagenda. Tugera kuri paruwasi abandi bari ku iseminari hirya nuko noneho padiri mukuru waho ahita aza aratwakira uwo mupadiri mukuru ubu aba hariya inyamata. Yitwa rugengamanzi niwe wari padiri mukuru aratwakira azana yari yabahaye nibyo bateka batetse baratwakiriye baratugaburiye tubonako tubonye ubuhungiro. Ariko ngewe kuri paruwasi nkumva simpashaka kubera hari umugabo twahoraga duhanganye kuva umugabo wanjye yafungwa mubyitso. Umupadiri witwa gakuba yahoraga ampiga ambwira abantu ko ndi ikitso ko turi inyenzi mbese agahora ashakisha ikintu cyatuma hari ncika no mu kiriziya ahari kigatuma n’abantu bangirira nabi. Nuko noneho mbwira umugabo nti ariko aha hantu ntabwo bahakorotiriye nti kandi dore abantu barimo barahagendagenda nti kandi na gakuba natubona arahadutsinda. Nti twigire mu iseminari ubwo hari ku itariki ya munani nuko ducunga abandi ku jisho twigira mu iseminari abandi tubasiga aho ngaho ariko byari byegeranye. N’abana banjye bose na basaza bange bose turagenda tujya mu iseminari turaharaye hari ahantu hari isale twicaye turaye dusenga mbega twabonaga ibintu bitameze neza. Bashyiraho gouvernement ya batabazi nibwo twamenyeko tuvanze n’interahamwe baratangira barishima noneho tukumva ntabwo tukivuga ibintu bimwe. Turara dufite ubwoba buracya mugitondo ku itariki ya cyenda niba guverinoma barayishyizeho ku yamunani niba ari kuya cyenda simbyibuka ariko ni muri iyo minsi ku itarik ya cyenda ku wagatandatu hari mugitondo, interahamwe ziraza harabanza haza mbonampeka yigeze kuba minister w’ubutabera araza ambwira abapadiri bo mwiseminari ati ariko ubundi aba Bantu bari hano mwabohereje bagataha ngo ariko ubundi ubu ntabwo mufitemo inyenzi. Abapadiri baramubwira bati abantu bari aha bose ni abakirisitu bacu nta nyenzi zirimo kandi ntabwo twabohereza icyo bahunze ntikirarangira. Rwose hariho intambara ati reka bagume aha ngaha ntacyo babaye nibirangira bazataha ati mwanze mwanze kubarekure ati se mwabaretse ko tubaha abasirikare bo kubarinda. Baravuga bati ariko abo Bantu bo kubarinda ntabwo bajya barinda buri muntu ati nibabarindire ahangaha aho bari. Mbonampeka aragenda hashize akanya gato cyane tubona aragarutse n’abasirikare baba padiri baba barabarashe. Bari abapadiri babahutu umwe yari na mwishya wa musenyeri nsengiyumva yitwaga naniya rugasira undi we ananiya ubwo yahise apfa ako kanya. Uwitwa ndereya nubu ngubu arahari aba hariya muri saint michel baba baguye aho ubwo noneho bahita bavuga ngo uziko ari umuhutu wese nafate irangamuntu ye asohoke. Noneho batangira kwivangura umuhutu akerekana indangamuntu nutayerekanye byabaga bigaragara agasohoka. Abashatse kwihishamo babana babasore babatutsi bagiye babarasira ku irembo amasasu atangiye kuvuga ubwo natwe tugumye aho ngaho biratuyobeye abana banjye babiri babahungu bakuru babona abandi barimo barasoka noneho baraza baratureba aho twari twicaye. Baradupopera baratubwira ngo tuzahurira mu ijuru bo bakoze icyo gusimbuka igipangu bariruka bagwa inyuma na musaza wange umwe. Abandi tuguma aho ngaho ku itari ya cyenda burira ku itariki ya cumi interahamwe zirirwa ziza aho ngaho kureba uko tumeze turi mu masengesho gusa mbese umuntu yumvaga byarangiye. Tutabona aho tunyura hanze hose hari amabariyeri ubwo ku icumi burira kuri cumi nimwe mugitondo mugihe cyo mu ma saa tatu nibwo interahamwe zaje. Nyinshi cyane baraza baratubaza bati amafaranga ya habyarimana mwayikwije muri inkotanyi muri inyenzi muduhe amafaranga y’umubyeyi wacu. Ati kandi uwo dusangana n’igiceri turamwica ubwo ngwee n’umugabo nta kintu twari dufite uretseko twari twagerekeranyije imyenda gusa nta ni giceri twari dufite. Nuko abayafite barayatanga ariko ntabwo ariyo bashakaga mubyukuri byari ukwiyenzi barangije bashaka gutera grenade aho ngaho twari turimo. Noneho grenade haza umukobwa wari wambaye ibintu by’amashara nundi mugabo wari ufite umuheto n’imyambi hari amazina bari bafite. Hari uwitwa pasteri na rukanika n’umugabo wange na nkundabarashe ariko we ntibamuhamagaraga cyane bahamagaraga pasteri na rukanika. Noneho hakaba hari undi musore witwaga mutsinzi nawe baramuhigaga noneho bamwambika kuvureri baramutwikira amera nk’umudamu. Arangije we abasohokamo ariruka yirutse baramurasa noneho baba babonye umugabo wanjye ngo dore nayanyenzi iruta izindi ngo haguruka baramuhagurutsa. Bahagurutsa n’abana banjye babakobwa babiri barabasohokana babajyana hanze njyewe ntibambona nari negamye inyuma y’abandi badamu. Noneho ngo abo bana banjye babakobwa ngo bashaka kubaviyora ariko iyo n’inkuru nabwiwe na pasteri kuko yararokotse. Yabarebaga aho yari yihishe noneho barababwira bati se murashaka kudufata murashaka kudukorera ibintu nimutwice n’ubundi tugomba gupfa. Noneho uwo mukobwa abambura imyenda yabo ahita ayambara bari bambaye amapantalo arangije arababwira ngo nimugende murapfira rimwe n’abandi ntawe ugiye gupfusha umwanya ubusa. Babagarura munzu babagaruye munzu wa mukobwa aba arambonye ati twasohoye umwana twibagirwa nyina ati kuramo iyo myenda barampagarikiye imyenda nyikuramo nta muntu wayinkuragam. Nkuramo imyenda yose nsigarana agakanzu nari nambaye ndayimuhereza baragenda nka nyuma y’iminota nk’icumi nibwo bagarutse barasa umugore witwa makurata ni n’umugore wuwo mugabo witwa Pasteur. Bamurasa amaguru baramubwira ngo nahaguruke kandi bamurashe amaguru bagenda bamukurura natwe baradusohora. Mu byukuri buri muntu ngirango ubanza yari afite abantu babiri bo kumwica bari benshi cyane baradusora batujyana mu kibuga baratubwira ngo nituryame. Wanze kuryama bakagutema uhagaze byose byari kimwe turaryamye mperuka uko naryamye naryamye mfatanye mu kiganza n’umwana wanjye w’umukobwa. Abandi nabo mbashyira iruhande rwange mbese numvaga batamva iruhande nuko turaryama twubitse inda batwerekaga position turi buryamemo bari bafite ukuntu bari bubigenze. Ikintu mperuka nuko kuryama nongeye kugira ubwenge mbona barantemaguye ubwo badutemye ari nko ku itariki cumi nimwe bigeze nko mu ma saa kumi nebyiri nibwo imvura yaguye numva mbaye nk’umuntu ukangutse. Ariko negutse numva simbasha kweguka umutwe wajanjaguritse amenyo yasohotse mbese nuzuye amaraso ahantu hose ngerageza guhaguruka ndongera nikubita hasi interahamwe ziba ziraje. Ziza ziza kureba noneho abagihumeka kuko batemaguye abantu bose noneho bakajya baza bagaterura bagakubita hasi, bagaterura imyenda bagakubita hasi. Nuko baragenda bigeze nijoro ngenda negura mbona byanga ubwonko bwari bwasohotse nanjye aho batemye bwagombaga kuba bwasohotse. Nuko ari Imana yankijije kuko aho bantemye ni nkaho bari batemye abandi bose. Nuko ndavuga nti ubu nabo baraza guhembuka nti jyewe se ko nahembutse kandi bari bantemye. Nicara aho ngaho muri iyo mirambo ngiye kubona mbona za nterahamwe ziragarutse.Ngenda ngiye kumywa amazi igiye kunkubita umupanga indi iramubwira iti ariko se uyu mugore igihe wamutemeye ntiwahaze. Ngo ntago ariho ngo nanabaho ngo azicwe n’agahinda ngo mureke. Baragenda ndangije mbona umupadiri wari uhagaze imbere ya chapelle ubwo umurambo wuwo nguwo ananiya niho bari bawushyize ahagaze k’umuryango. Ngenda musanga tuziranye ariko aranyoberwa kubera ukuntu nari nabaye ndamubwira nti se wampishe aho ngaho nti ko hano bari kuza kandi ko bari bunyice nabi. Ati naha baravuze ngo baraza mu kanya bankureho ati ahubwo jya hariya muruyuzi. Hari jardin yari iri mbere ya chapelle iriho inzuzi nama epinali. Ninjiramo niba ariwe wantwikiriye uruyuzi ni ari Imana icyo nzicyo nzicyo nuko bagarutse kunshaka ngo bandangize bakambura. Bahita bagenda bavuga ngo ariko se wa mugore wari uraha ngo agiye he ngo aciye he se ko adakinguye? Baranshaka ngo yewe ngo niba akinariho ngo ntago ejo azagaruka ndara muri urwo ruyuzi bigejeje mugitondo nko mu ma saa kumi nimwe. Nsubira muri ya mirambo ndongera ndeba abana banjye bose nkasanga ubwonko bwabo bwasohotse ndeba umugabo.We nkabura ahantu bamutemye ariko yapfuye yari afatanye nundi mugenzi we mu ntoki bapfuye bafatanye. Nuko ndagaruka nicaramo muri iyo mirambo ndicara ngeze aho ndavuga nti ariko se ubu ndicara. Ngeze aho ndavuga nti ariko se ubu ndicara aha ndahakora iki noneho nzenguruka hahandi hose ngeze aho ndavuga ngo reka basi njye hariya muri toilette. Mbe ariho njya noneho naravugaga nti noneho nibaza uretse no kunyica barankorera n’ibindi byose birenze no kwica nkumva mfite ubwoba bwa viol. Nuko ndagenda njya muri toilette z’abanyeshuri narebye iyanduye cyane aba ariyo njyamo. Nti ibyo aribyo byose aha nibaza bagasanga handuye ntabwo bahajya mpagarara imbere y’urugi koko niko byagenze. Barakomeje bakajya baza aho ngaho bakaza bakituma ariko yayindi ntibayizemo. Noneho hashize iminsi nk’itatu bagendaga basubira mu ntumbi ariko bareba niba nta warokotse. Hashize nk’iminsi nk’itatu nibwo mbonampeka yazanaga essence arabarundanya barabatwika nkumva barabivuga ndaho muri toilette. Bararundanya baratwika bacukura aho ngaho imbere ya chapelle babashyiramo barenzaho itaka baragenda. Ariko ubwo nkajya mvuga nti wenda hari umwana wanjye uriho nkuko nanjye ndiho kuko ukuntu bari bangize ntago nagombaga kuba ndiho. Ubundi nkavuga nti ba bana banjye buriya birukanse bo hari uwarokotse mbese nihishaga mvuga ngo hari uwarokotse. Nuko mbaye aho muri toillete iminsi ibiri itatu nta kintu nywa amaraso yamvuyemo yaravuye yarakamye. Nuko k’umunsi wa gatanu nibwo haje umwana wigaga aho ngaho mu iseminari nawe bari baratemye intumbi ziramugwira ariko ntibamutema ariko basa nabamukomeretsa akantu gatoya. Ku kiganza nuko abantu bakoraga aho ngaho mu iseminari baramuhisha bamuhisha mugikoni cyabo bamutwikiriza ibintu ariko abaje gusahura barabiterura. Ariko ntibamubona nibwo yahise aza aho ngaho nari ndi rero muri toilete yumva ndahirita nk’umuntu ugiye gupfa. Ararunguruka arungurutse arambona niwe watangiye kumpa amazi yo kumywa akajya akoza akantu ku rurimi agatonyanza. Akambwira ati numywa menshi arakwica tubaye aho ngaho muri toilette haza kuzamo n’abandi bana. Mbega twahavuye turi nk’abantu nka batanu bahaza buhoro buhoro ubwo twabayemo kugeza ku itariki ya 01/05 nibwo baturokoye baragenda umwana umwe waje wigaga mu iseminari nawe wari uturutse iruhanga. Sinzi aho yakuye ikintu niba ari icyuma niba ari urwembe rushaje niwe wanyogoshe imisatsi yarafashe mu bisebe ariko imisatsi kuyikuramo biramunanira. Abaganga b’inkotanyi nibo bamvuye batangiye kumvurira indera haraboze nange ubwange sinarinziko nzakira cyangwa ngo ni nkira ngo mbe muzima. Ariko rero baramvuye bageze aho bajyana n’ibyumba niho navuriwe ubwo rero abana banjye bose uko ari batandatu n’umugabo wanjye na basaza banjye n’umugore wa musaza wange. Bose barapfuye ariko muri uko gupfa ntabwo narinziko bose bapfuye numvaga abana babiri bashobora kuba bariho naravugaga nti ntago bapfuye rwose barirutse. Wenda buriya babayeho nkajya mpora ndumva bariho ndetse umuntu aza no kumbwira ngo hari umwana wange w’umukobwa uhari. Ndamubwira nti se ari hehe bamwe bati ari ikabuga abandi bati kuri goma mbese yari yarabaye simbizi. Nuko ariko biza kugaragara ko ntabo nyine hanyuma mba ibyumba twagiye ahantu hitwaga niba ari muri social. Noneho musaza wanjye wo kwa maman wacu yari ari ibyumba akora kuri prefecture niwe waje kuhankura aranjyana aramfasha. Ariko ubwo ngubwo tuva indera nabonye ukuntu abana banjye bapfuye ndavuga nti. Kuko hari n’abandi bana barokotse nkavuga nti hari abarokotse wenda barabatwaye nange reka ntware aba babandi. Mbese nari narahahamutse numva abana nta mwana ugomba kubabara nuko ubwo nageze ibyumba mfite abana bagera kuri batanu ubwo musaza wange agiye kuntwara. Bamwe mbajyana muri orphelinat undi umwe muha umuntu w’umusirikari aragenda amwigirira kadogo. Nuko intambara irangiye rero ngaruka mu matongo ariko nsanga barahashenye barahamaze hanyuma rero umwana mbereye nyinawabo. Niwe watubohoreje inzu njyamo n’abandi bana babavandimwe be jyamo turabana. Mbabera nyina bambera abana hanyuma baza kubona umuvandimwe wabo abatwara hanze. Ariko sinigeze ncika intege ntago nigeraga numva nabaho nta mwana mfite ibyo byose nabagaho nararyaga kandi nari mukuru nari nshoboye kubishaka. Ariko nkumva umwana atabasha kwishakishiriza icyarya nkumva iteka agomba kubana n’umubyeyi. Ufite ukwamera ni muri ubwo buryo rero nagiye nshaka abana b’imfubyi tukabana ubonye abe akabasanga utabafite akansanga. Martin:Aha wambwiyeko igitero cyaje kubica mwari muri indera? Josephine: Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu mu iseminari. Martin:Noneho nareba noneho nareba n’ahantu mwari mutuye biragaragarako harimo akanya aho babiciye izo nterahamwe nizari zivuye aho mwari mutuye cyangwa niza handi? Josephine:Yewe iby’interahamwe rero baraguranaga abi ndera bakajya I kanombe ab’I kanombe bakajya I kanombe nkubwo ngubwo rwose interahamwe zishe aho ngaho mu iseminari urebye nizikanombe. Nizi ikanombe zari kumwe n’abasirikari ariko rero nab’iwacu kuko abana banjye bakuru barahunze basubira kumusozi w’iwacu. Na musaza wange n'umwe niho baguye,niho baguye ariko ntabwo nari narigeze mbimenya. Nahoraga nshakisha muri mirongo icyenda na karindwi niho twagiye mugikorwa cyo gushyingura amagufa yari yandagaye k’umusozi. Ndi mubantu bambere bihutiye gushyingura mvuga ngo ndashyingura abana banjye ndashyingura abavandimwe ariko naje gusanga ko ataribo twashyinguraga. Turongera na none indi nshuro imwe turongera turashyingura bwa kabiri. Bambwira ngo bari aha naha aho banyeretse amagufa nkagenda gutoragura nta bimenyetso nashakaga nahitaga mvuga nti ubu nibo rwose. Ejo bundi mu bihumbi bibiri na gatanu ngirango nibwo twashyinguye hari mukwezi kwa kane. Umuntu aranyemeza ati nihariya noneho rwose ni nange wanabishyinguriye ngwino njye kubaguha ndagenda ndataburura abantu makumyabiri na batatu nabashyinguye ku gisozi. Ni amasanduka manini cyane n’imisaraba yanditseho ayo mazina yabo nuko ariko biza kugaragara ko yambeshyaga sinzi icyo yaragamije. Niba yari abizi cyangwa Atari abizi sinzi ngewe nayobowe ibyo aribyo. Mu makuru ya gacaca niho haje umwana wabanaga n’abana banjye bangana niwe wavuze ibyo aribyo ni nawe wavuze uko babataye muri toilette. Nibwo babatabururaga mu kwezi kwa cumi tubashyingura mu kwa cumi na biri noneho ari ariko n’ibimenyetso byabo ndabibona n’amarangamuntu. Amakarita y’ishuri imyenda yabo uretseko gusa bari barabaye utugufa barashengaguritse. Nuko tubakura muri toilette ya metero cumi n’esheshatu n’abandi Bantu babajugunyanyemo. Binatuma n’abantu bo kumusozi w’iwacu dutaburura abaribo nyabo imibiri yaragaragaraga n’ibyangombwa twashyinguye abantu Magana abiri na mirongo itanu. Twataburuye abantu Magana abiri na mirongo itanu icyo gihe kandi abantu bahariya iwacu baratubeshyaga tugataburura abataribo buri gihe.Twashyinguye inshuro nyinshi dushyingura abntu batari abacu ariko n’abanyarwanda twashyinguraga. Ntabwo tubyicuza uretseko badushinyaguriye bihagije guhora washyinguye wataburuye washyinguye.Ushyingura abataribo. Martin:Noneho ikintu ngarutse kuri icyo kintu cyo gushyingura incuro nyinshi ushyingura abantu bataribo abantu babarangira abo Bantu n’abantu mwari muturanye? Iyo mwitegereje mubona sinzi ukuntu mwabisobanurira umuntu ngo yaguye aha wenda anakubeshya. Abantu babarangiraga n’abantu mwari musanzwe muturanye? Josephine:N’abantu twabanaga rwose twari duturanye cyane uwo we wandangiiye akambwira ko yabashyinguye ni numucikacumu.Namubajije icyo yashatse kugeraho dushaka kubipfa ariko ndavuga nti ntabwo ari ngombwa ko tubipfa. Ababishe nibo batumye no kumbeshya bibaho iyo njya kuba umuntu w’umugome mba naramukurikiye bigatinda ariko naravuze uwabishe niwe watumye nibi byose bibaho. Nti izi ningaruka za jenocide zikomeje kunkurikirana ariko noneho we urumva ko bwari incuro ya kabiri kandi n’ubwambere naramubwiraga nti ngiye. Ngiye kwibuka nta kintu nakoraga nta mubwiye nk’umucikacumu mwenewacu nkamubwira nti uyu munsi nzakora amasengesho yo kwibuka akaza. Noneho ndamubaza nti ariko se kubera iki ugeze iki gihe cyo utarambwira ko aba bana bashyinguye aho hantu akabwira abantu ko ngo yangaga ko mpahamuka. Nkamubwira nti se nari guhahamuka nti nubundi mu kwa kane buri tariki cumi n’imwe nkora amasengesho yo kubibuka. Kuki utaretse ngo mpahamukire kimwe ariko mbashyingure nuko muri gacaca rero uwo mwana abivuze byaho babashyize noneho. Muhamagaye ngirango uwo mwana niwe umbeshya twari tugiye gutongana nukwitesha agaciro nanga gutongana nawe no guhangana nawe. Ndamwihorera ndavuga nti ibi byose n’ingaruka zingeraho reka mpangane nabyo nkuko nsanzwe ariko ikindi cyo nuko muri za mirongo cyenda na karindwi. Abadutaburuje iyo misozi yose tuyiruka n’abaturanyi ni nababigizemo uruhare mu kubica atari no kwica abanjye gusa no kwica abantu bo kuri ako gasozi bose. Ubu muri gacaca aho bagenda baburanira niho bagenda babivuga abababonye bakabashinja. Nabo ubwabo bakishinja bagashinjanya ariko rero bagaragaje ubugome bukabije n’agashinyaguro gakabije. Gusa gacaca irimo iragenda ibatahu abafunzwe bakarega abatarafunzwe abafunzwe bagashinja abafunguwe.Niko iwacu bimeze. Martin:Reka ngaruke kuri abo bana abandi bo twumvise ko baguye indera nyuma bakaza no kubatwika ubwo birumvikana…….. Josephine:Aho bashyinguye rero ngewe niba ari uko nari ngihahamutse cyane muri mirongo cyenda na karindwi nibwo twabakoreye amasengesho yambere. Ariko ubwo ni nange werekanye aho babashyize hari ikigunda rwose n’amafoto yaho. Y’ukuntu nagiye mpufira niki birahari ariko bavuze ngo mutaburure ngewe ndavuga nti oya sinshaka ko mudaburura urebye rero ntabandi Bantu benshi baharokokeye. Ninge nuwo mwana umwe ubu ari mu busuwisi ubu ari no muri ibuka yahariya yitwa sezari turavuga tuti mwikwirirwa mubataburura rwose baranabatwitse. Nimuhakore neza hanyuma abapadiri batwemerera kuhubaka urwibutso rwiza ruraho rurahari iteka kuri cumi na rimwe z’ukwa kane tujya kubibuka.Tukagira misa nuko ruraho ngaho rwose imbere ya chapelle. Martin:Ugeranije kubantu bake barokotse aho ngaho ni wowe nuwo mwana ndumva n’abantu bake cyane ugereranije n’abantu bari aho ngaho biciye hariya. Josephine: Yewe bari nka Magana ni hafi Magana ane urebye kuko amashuri yose yari yuzuye hari n’agasare kari kuzuye gusa abari abahutu baje gusohokamo baragenda ariko ntago aribo bari benshi. Abari benshi n’abatutsi bari bahahungiye. Martin:Ni ukuvuga ko mu bantu magana ane bari bahari abarokotsemo ntabwo barenga icumi. Josephine:Aho ngaho mu iseminari oya ntabo nuwo mwana sezari nange hari nutundi twana twabanje kugenda twiruka ariko abo tuzi twibara turi babiri. Josephine:Muri izo ntumbi nitwe twavuye muri izo ntumbi. Martin:Ngarutse kuri babana bawe baguye hariya imasoro waba warigeze umenya abantu babishe cyangwa se n’uburyo babishemo wenda uretse no kubata muri toilette? Josephine:Muri gacaca rero barabivuga ariko iyo babivuga bavuga abapfuye mubyukuri n’abazima bahari mubyukuri nabo babigizemo uruhare cyakora ikigaragara nuko abo base abashijwe ubu ngubu barafashwe na gacaca. Martin:Usibye hari ikintu cyo babanzaga gutema umuntu bakamuta mu musarane sinzi niba warigeze umenya niba barabataye mu musarani ari bazima cyangwa niba barabanje bakabatemagura? Josephine:Umwana wabitubwiyemo amakuru yatubwiye yuko barabatemye umuhungu wange wa kabiri uwo bitaga dede yitwaga jean bosco. Yakundanaga nuwo mwana cyane uwo nguwo wabivuze noneho ngo bagiye kubica uwo mwana yitwa gashirabake ngo aramubwira ati gashiraba? twarabanye turapfuye aho tugiye nta nkweto bambara ati akira izi nkweto ujye uzinyibukiraho. Ati kandi uzajye ubivuga. Ati hanyuma ngo noneho babwira abari bagiye kubica bati nimube muretse kutwica tubanze dusenge,abana ngo barasenga ngo barangije babata mu musarani. Niwe waduhayemo ayo makuru. Ariko ngewe ndumva nukuva ngo niba uwo mwana aba yarabashije kuba yarahawe inkweto n’umuhungu wawe nukuvaga ngo nababatemye arabazi. Arabazi mubyukuri we aravuga ngo yahise yiruka ntabwo bemera kuvuga ngo babihagarareho neza. Ngo mbese bemeze ikiriho kugirango nabasigaye batabagirira nabi aravuga ati ngewe nahise niruka akavuga ngo nuwamwirukankanye ngo akamukubita inkoni mubitugu. Kuvuga ngo rero ngo ntago yabonye uwamutemye ariko noneho abandi bakavuga ko ngo batemwe n’umuntu witwaga habari n’umuntu wapfuye. Akongera bakavuga ngo ni uwitwa sebahire,sebahire nawe yarapfuye ntawe uriho wabatemye ariko bigaragarako abari aho bose barabazi ababatemye. Ariko ntawe ubavuga ngo abyemeze umwana aravuga ati yamaze kuzinkubita ndiruka ntabwo rero yavuga ati nabonye kanaka wenda amuvuze ari aho ngaho nawe yamuhiga sinzi. We nta nubwo arongera kubura ngo kuko yanafunzwe ari umwana ariko wenda azaburana gacaca niyo izi uko izabigenza ntabwo nge mbizi. Martin:None abantu birumvikana ko abantu bagushizeho ariko hari ikintu ibyo aribyo byose nta muntu ujya wibagirwa umuryango we none twagirango utubwire kumugabo wawe yari muntu ki? Yari ateye ate mu mibanire ye n’abandi Bantu ikintu ujya wumva umwibukiraho udashobora gupfa kwibagirwa? Josephine:Nta na kimwe cyatuma mwibagirwa ngewe namuvuga se ngo iki kumuvuga ntago bihagije ngirango niriya photo ishora kubikwereka byonyine yari umugabo utuje. Yari umuntu ucisha make ariko ubana n’abantu bose cyane cyane nawe yakundaga abana ngirango ni nayo mpamvu yajyane n’abana. Be simbizi yari umuntu wumvikana kandi ugira impuhwe cyane kuburyo yashoboraga kwiyibagirwa cyangwa akibagirwa abandi. Niko yari ateye uuuuuuuu yari umuntu ukunda umuryango we cyane ngirango iyo aza kuba umugabo w’igisambo afunguwe mubyitso yari guhita yigendera akanadusiga. Ariko ntago yabigize yakundaga bose nta muntu yangaga yakundaga abantu baciye bugufi abantu babakene. Wasangaga imodoka yacu ariyo itwara ababyeyi bacu hariya kwa muganga umuntu wibukagaga kubona atwaye umugore w’umukene abona agiye kubyara. Akibuka kumutwarira ikintu cyo kumuhembuza amaze kubyara nta wundi wabigiraga yari umugabo mwiza. N’abana banjye kandi nuko bari abana bakunda abandi bana bagira urugwiro ntabwo nshobora kubibagirw ahubwo ngerageza kubigana bikananira. Martin:Sinzi ukuntu nabivuga noneho ngewe ndashaka kuvuga aha ngaha bishe abantu bakumaraho abantu ese ….. birega bakemera n’icyaha baje kukwirega bakemere n’icyaha abo Bantu baje kukwirega wababarira? Josephine:Kubabarira hari amagambo abantu bihutisha kuvuga ukabona utazi nibyo aribyo ari wamuntu umanuka akagusanga ari nawe uvuga ngo uramubabariye n’ibintu bikomeye cyane. Kuko ngewe uko mbona iki gihugu nicy’abanyarwanda bose ntabwo ari icyange ngenyine nta nubwo ari icy’uwacitse ku icumu wenyine ntibinashoboka. Ntabwo icyaha gihanishwa ikindi cyaha cyangwa se ngo ubugome buhanishwe ubundi ngewe ku giti cyange nabwiye Imana ibyo nkora byose nta na kimwe nikoresha. Kuko ntacyo nakwishoboza byikoresheje nta nubwo naba nkiriho naba narabaye n’umusazi simbizi ariko ngewe ibyange byose mbiha Imana kuko nubwo kuva muri iyo mirambo ya bana banjye. N’umugabo wange n’abavandimwe n’abatunyi bose nari nsize aho ngaho bagaramye ari intumbi sinarinziko nzabaho. Nabwiye Imana ko ariyo ibizi ariyo izi impamvu yabyo ikintu rero nasabye Imana kandi yarakimpaye nayibwiyeko niba ari aba bapfuye niba hari abandi bo kubaho izampa gukunda ngakunda nta kindi kintu ndeba kuruhande. Nkakunda urukundo rwayo kuko urwange sinarubona bivuga rero ngo ngewe umuntu ansanze akabwira ati nakugiriye nabi naguha n’urugero rw’uwo mwana. Wavuze ati abana bawe babataye hari sinkubeshya umutima wanjye waramwakiriye,waramwakiriye kuburyo ndamubona nkabona n’umwana wa mwana nabonaga cya gihe. Noneho nkavuga nti ngewe aho kugirango ndemererwe nasabye Imana kumpa umutima wagutse urimo impuhwe nkazigiirira uwo mbona azikeneye.Niyo yaba ari umuhutu wa wundi wanyiciye ariko akaza mbona yapfuye. Akeneye impuhwe kubabarirwa nge namubabarira kuko ari umuntu nge ntabwo nakora ubunyamaswa nkubwe ntabwo rero aringe wabyihaye singiye kukubeshya. Kuko ngewe ubwange ntawe ndiwe nta nicyo mba ndicyo pe ariko kuba Imana yarabonyeko abana banshizeho umubiri ukanshiraho. Nkakokoka ngasigara nteye isesemi ikongera ikandema umuntu yumva ashaka kunyegera mbere barampungaga abantu bambonye nyuma ya jenocide ho gato barampungaga. Ntari nteye ishozi n’isesemi nta muntu wanyondoye nta muntu wagize ikintu ankorera ngo avuge ngo nakugiriye ntya. Nubwo hariho uwanyondoye nkuwo musaza wange wanjyanye akanshyira iwe ariko hatarimo imbaraga z’Imana ntabwo byari gushoboka. Nari gusara bivuga ngo Imana niyo yambungabunze ingira uko ndi uku nange murukundo rwayo ngomba gukora icyo insaba uwaza ansaba imbabazi ambwiza ukuri ngewe nazimuha. Ariko imbabazi za nyirarubeshwa ntazo mfite hari ibintu muri gacaca bavuga ngo nsabye imbabazi abanyarwanda bose. Ziriya sinjya nzitanga kuko mbona aribyo bize gusa kuko ni siroga bafite izo rero ntazo mfite ariko umuntu waza agapfukama akavuga ati ibintu nakoze akabivuga abikuye k’umutima. Kandi iyo umuntu avuga ikintu abikuye k’umutima urabibona nazimuha ariko rero ntago bazisaba kuko usaba imbabazi nufite umutima wa kimuntu. Ufite ubu muntu aragusanga kuko aba abona uri umuntu iyo atagusanze rero aba abona ukiri cya kindi ya kwitaga cya gihe. N’ubundi batwambuye ubumuntu batwita inyenzi batwita ibyo ntazi batwita ibiki nubu aracyabimbonamo ariko uwaza akanyegera ngewe nazimuha pe. Martin:Noneho nyuma yo kumva ibintu bikomeye waciyemo urumva kuroka mu Bantu bangana kuriya noneho ukaza no kugira n’ikibazo umuryango wawe wose ukagushiraho. Ubu muri iki gihe sinzi navuga nti se murebwayire Josephine ubu muri iki gihe n’umuntu umeze ute? N’umuntu ufite ibyiringo nubwo abantu bamushizeho mbese nyuma ya jenocide. Wadusobanurira mbese muri wowe wumva umeze ute ntabwo mbyumva? Josephine:Erega ntabwo byumvikana mu bwenge bwa muntu n’indengakamere kandi iyo bavuze indengakamere wumva ko ari ibirenze kamere muntu. Ntabwo ibyambayeho mu buzima bwanjye kuva ndi uruhinja kuva ndi umwana kugeza kuri iyi myaka mfite n’indengakamere ariko indengakamere hariho uwaremye kamere. Aranshoboza urambajije rero uti ufite byiringiro ki,ibyiringiro mfite nuko ntabereyeho ngewe,ngewe nkanjye ngewe ntabwo nakagombye kuba nkiriho. Nta nicyo naba maze ariko kuberako mbona ko hari abo mbereyeho wenda bansoroma ngomba kubaho kandi nkabaho nk’umuntu ufite ibyo nshinzwe ngakora nk’umuntu ufite inshingano. Kandi izo nshingano nta nubwo narinziko nzazigira nari napfuye ndazuka nukuvaga ngo muri uko kuzuka nazutse ndi undi wundi utari wa wundi. Nakagombye rero kwemera uko njya nkunda kubwira abantu nti Josephine yarapfuye habaho tante. Kuko ubu nitwa tante w’abana bose kuko umwana unsanze afite ikibazo mbasha kugikemura ndagikemura. Nkamuhumuriza nkamwumvisha ko agomba kubaho nka mutera imbaraga numva rero narasigariye kuba tante w’abana bose. Umwana unsanze afite ikibazo nshobora kugikemura ndagikemura nkamuhumuriza nkamwumvisha ko agomba kubaho. Nkamuremesha kandi nkamutera imbaraga numva rero narasigariye kuba maman w’abana badafite banyina. Ntabwo aringombwa ko mba mbatunze murugo rwange ariko hariho uwo mbwira nti ibi nibi ibi nibi nkabona ndamuremesheje ateye intambwe. Hari abo mfite hano murugo ubu mfite abana batandatu mfitemo abakobwa babiri mfitemo n’abahungu bane. Harimo abo ntazi iwabo ntazi na se na nyina ntazi naho bavukiye harimo nabo umuryamo harimo na maman wambyaye ntigeze menya kuberako natakaye ndi umwana muto. Nkamubona jenocide irangiye batahutse mu Rwanda abo bose n’inshingano mfite ngomba kuzuza uko nzishoboye. Ikindi nuko Imana yandokoye imfiteho umugambi imfasha no kuwusohoza ntiyankojeje isoni ntiyampinduye umusazi byarashobokaga. Batamye mu mutwe ubwonko ntibwagiye ndatekereza nukuvuga ngo ngomba kubaho nshima Imana ndatekereza nukuvuga ngo rero ngomba kubaho nshima Imana kandi nkora icyo nshoboye. N’ikintu cya girira abandi akamaro. Martin:Abantu mwari muturanye ahantu mwari mutuye uyu munsi mubanye mute ? Ese nyuma yubu bw’icanyi bwa gukozeho ndetse bukora no kubanyarwanda benshi ubu ubona hashobora kuzongera hakabaho ikintu cyo kubana nta kintu cy’urwikekwe. Hagati y’abantu bishe n’abiciwe ? Josephine:Ariko urwikekwe sinzi ngo niba ari kadafi wabivuze ngo ujye undinda incuti zange ngo abanzi ndabazi. Ubundi umuntu murabana ariko Imana yaduhaye ubwenge iduha gushishoza nta mpamvu yo kumuhutaza yagize ibyago mpari namutabara nk’umunyarwanda yagize ibyiza twabisangira. Ariko nka kenga nkagira amakenga kuberako ibyo aribyo byose ntabwo incira ishobora guhinduka inkoko ngo uyirye. Ni ukuvuga ngo niba uziko mu ishyamba harimo inyamaswa ugomba kugenda uzi uko uri buhunge iyo nyamaswa. Ukarigendamo ngewe nuko nakubwira ariko rero abaturanyi turabana ntabwo nzi kuvangura ubwo ngo umuhutu simusuhuza sinzi kugenda ntuka umuntu ngo uriya n’interahamwe. Umuntu iyo duhuye duhura mubonamo umuntu hanyuma ikibi kikaza igihe gikorewe nange nkabonako ari kibi ariko ntago njya nigizayo umuntu uwo ariwe wese. Nkumva umutima wanjye ukeneye kwakira buri wese uje awugana yawugana nabi simuhe umwanya. Martin:Hari muri jenocide by’umwihariko abantu babadamu hari abantu babadamu benshi bagiye bahura n’ibintu byibibazo usibye no kuba babica n’abana bakabamaraho hari nabagiye bahura n’ingorane bakabaviyora bakabanduza indwara. Usibye no kubaviyora hari nabagiye bahura n’ibikomere bikomeye kuburyo uyu munsi iyo ugiye kwitegereza usanga nge navuga nti abapfakazi benshi bafite ibibazo. Bituruka kuri jenocide ndetse ubona binakomeye cyane uyu munsi koko nkubungubu umuntu yikoreye umutwaro w’indwara izamwica igihe iki niki. Udafite uwo mutwaro jenocide yarangiye aguma mu buzima butari bwiza ubukene burakomeza bumumerera nabi aha noneho nagirango nk’umuntu nkawe w’umubyeyi. Wagize ikibazo bakakumaraho umuryango icyo nikindi kintu kigikomere giteye ubwoba aha nagirango umpe ishusho y’abapfakazi ba jenocide babayeho ubu bari mungaruka zikomeye cyane. Nizo z’uburwayi wababwira iki ese sinzi ukuntu nge navuga. Ubuzima bwabo uyu munsi bugeze he ? ese bameze bate ese n’abantu ubona uduhe ishusho yabyo yibyo bintu ? Josephine:Ikintu umbajije kirakomeye ubundi ngewe mba no mu muryango w’abapfakazi ba jenocide avega agahozo. Ndi vice presidente wa kabiri ku rwego rw’igihugu ni umuryango twashinze kubera ibibazo abapfakazi bari bafite abapfakazi barimo ingeri nyinshi harimo abafashwe ku ngufu koko barwaye bandujwe sida. Harimo abana babakobwa babyaye abana badashaka harimo abatemaguwe badafite ibice byo kumubiri umwe ugasanga nta kaboko afite. Uwo ijisho ryavuyemo mbese harimo ubumuga butandukanye noneho rero reba aba bantu bafite ubu muga bwo mu mutima. N’umubiri badafite aho bataha badafite inzu yo kubamo kenshi na kenshi begamiye aba bahekuye. Urumva ko ari agahinda kageretse ku kandi ariko nka association yacu icyo dukora nukubatera ingabo mubitugu tubabwira tuti muhumure. Kuba ukiriho nejo uzabaho tugira amahirwe amahirwe twabonye umushinga ubafasha kubona iriya miti igabanya ubukana bwa sida. Abatarapfuye kuko hari benshi barapfuye kuko iriya miti ije vuba kuko hari benshi baducitse. Ariko iramira n’abasigaye bakiriho umushinga wa sidipi duterwamo inkunga urebye na madamu wa perezida wa repuburika muri pakifa. Rwose ndamushima cyane kuko kubera bagenzi be rero uwo muntu abona imiti hakaba ubwo ayibonye adafite icyo arya. Nayo ikamuzonga kubonera ikintu umuntu arya buri munsi n’ibintu bikomeye kuko urabona turi abapfakazi bagenzi babo. Nta kazi dufite bamwe na bamwe bagafite nabo bafite izindi charges mungo zabo ariko turafashanya turahumurizanya.Icyo dukora nubuvugizi urumva mubyukuri benshi babaho bihebye ariko noneho avega ikintu ikora nubujyanama guhumurizanya kwegeranya. Ni nayo objectif y’umuryango wacu kwegerana,guhumurizanya,guhozanya umuntu ukamwumvishako niba ababaye ejo ashobora guhumurizwa niba arwaye ejo ashobora koroherwa. Sida yo nikimungu kiba mu mubiri ariko bimaze kugaragarako itakinica kuwabashije kubona iyo miti. Icyo rero dukora ngewe ibyiringiro mbaha nuko kubabara atariko gupfa ariko nbuvugizi na leta kandi ubwayo undi twebwe icyo tuba twifuza nuko aba bantu batarekurwa. Aba bantu bataha aba bantu bahabwa imbabazi mbese usanga biduhungabanya kuko usanga basa naho aribo bitaweho. Twebwe ugasanga ubuvugizi butuvugira yego burahari ariko ugasanga nta mbaraga ubona bushyirwamo kugirango ibibazo birangire yego ntawe uzagarura abantu. Ariko ibintu biragaruka inzu iraboneka icyo kurya kiraboneka umwambaro uraboneka imiti iraboneka. Mu bake rero bahari ndibazako wenda bafashe abapfakazi cyangwa abacitse ku icumu muri rusange ntabwo ari benshi cyane kuburyo bananirwa kugira icyo bakorerwa. Ngo dufashwe dufashwe ikarangira. Martin:Ariko tumaze imyaka cumi n’itatu jenocide irangiye aha ntawavuga ko uko abantu bari bameze jenocide ikirangira ariko bakimeze. Nyuma y’imyaka cumi nitatu ese mwebwe iyo murebye uko byari bimeze jenocide ikirangira mukongera mukareba uko bimeze nyuma y’imyaka cumi n’itatu. Mubona nibura hari ikintu cyabayeho cyo kuba abantu baragiye bava mu gihirahiro kugeza ubu umuntu yavuga ngo ubuzima burimo buragaruka? Josephine:Nukuri wenda uretseko ntawarangiriza ibibazo rimwe cyangwa wenda niba tubonye abantu ijana ngo tuvuge ngo abantu barashize ariko ibintu byarahindutse none se iyo ubona abana b’imfubyi barize bakaba bararangije. Bakaba bari muri universte abandi bararangije hari umwana wavuye mu mwobo aziko aziga. Abapfakazi bamwe niba barabashije kubona aho begeka umusaya ubwo uwo muntu yavugako ntacyakozwe. Biba ari bikeya ariko wenda mu mikoro make ariko ntago narahira ngo nsembe ngo ntacyo twakorewe. Cyarakozwe kuko niba umwana yararokotse ari muri secondaire ubu akaba ari muri univeriste ejo azabeshaho abandi. Nabataravayo kandi natwe tuzakomeza dufatanye tuvuge tuvuge icyangombwa nukuvuga kandi nanone abakiri inyuma ntago navuga ngo wenda nukubirengagiza. N’abanyarwanda bose muri rusange ntabwo bameze neza nkantswe nuwakuwe mutwe burundu. Ariko buhoro buhoro ngewe mbona hari icyahindutse gusa haracyarimo abameze nabi cyane binambabaza iyo numvise bavuga ngo batanga inkunga y’ingoboka ya farg. Ugasanga baravuga ngo mu mezi atatu ibihumbi icumi hari nutabirya mu mezi icumi icyo kintu rero kirambabaza icyo cyumvise hari nubwo numva ari agashinyaguro. Bakwiye kwiga uburyo bakareba ukuntu umuntu afashwa koko bihoraho bidahora byirukanka bajya gusaba. Martin:Hari ikintu nendaga kubabaza kijyanye n’ibintu byo kwibuka abantu bacu bagiye bamburwa agaciro muri jenocide. Babajugunya hirya no hino nyuma ya jenocide habayeho kugenda umuntu ashakisha ….. noneho bagashyingurwa noneho nagirango mutubwire mwumva abantu bacu bashyingurwa gute ? Josephine:Abantu bacu bagiye kubibuka kwiza icyambere nukumenya aho bajugunywe tukabashyingura tukabavana mu myobo. Tukabavana mu misarane tukavuga tuti abantu bo muri aka karere bashyinguye aha tukikora tukajyayo tukahabibukira ariko noneho kwibuka kwiza nukwibuka babantu basizwe na babandi ntibajye kwibuka umugabo w’umuntu. Umupfakazi we akiraraguza munzu zabamwiciye umupfakazi acyambaye incocero kandi yari akwiye kwambikwa nuwo mugabo ntabwo rero twajya tuvuga ngo tugiye kwibuka uwo mugabo. Tutibuka abasizwe nuwo muntu ngo abana babe bakirira batibuka ubasura ubagenderera ngo abigishe ngo mwa bana mwe nimuhumure ejo muzaba muri abagabo cyangwa abagore beza. Ngo tubakangurire kwitwara neza no kugira imico myiza nkiyo ababyeyi babo bari kuba babaha tujye ku ma sites memoriaux ariko twibuke na babantu basize na babandi. Martin:Ubundi hari ukuntu njye numvaga ibintu numvaga twakabaye twibuka abantu bacu tukabashyingura neza tugahora tunabibuka. Ariko ibyo bintu byombi bikajya bigerageza kujyana nkuko wari ubivuze kuri abo bantu basigaye nta kuntu umuntu yasigara muri ibyo bibazo byo kubura aho aba n’inzara. Ngo buri gihe tujye twibuka kuko ikintu nshaka kubivugira aho kugirango nze kubasaba ko mwagira ikintu mubivugaho. Ngirango nyuma y’imyaka cumi n’itatu jenocide irangiye ngirango ni mike cyane ariko iyo witegereje uburyo inzibutso zo mu rwanda zifashwe. Ubona ko hatabaye ikintu cyo guhindura uburyo zifashwemo ubona ko hatabaye ikintu cyo guhindura uburyo zifashwemo ubunako nka nyuma y’imyaka makumyabiri zishobora kuba zarangiritse muburyo bugaragara. Noneho ahangaha nkaba nshaka kugirango mvuge ngo kwibuka nibyabande nibyabacitse ku icumu nibyabaturanyi bacu se bo mubindi bihugu ? Kuko kenshi abantu bagira ikintu cyo kwibuka ari uko ukwezi kwa kane kwageze ntabwo harimo akantu ko gushishikara izo site memorial zikaba zakorerwa. Zigahora zitaweho mukeza igihe runaka sinzi niba mwebwe icyo kintu icyo mwabivugaho ? Josephine:Nukuri usanga twibuka mu kwa kane gusa wagirango ubundi tuba twaribagiwe aho bagiye tukabibuka mu kwa kane gusa. Wagirango tuba twaribagiwe aho bagiye tukavuga tuti nzajya gusura abantu bange mu kwezi kwa kane. Ariko uwawe umuhozaho umutima ugahora ushaka kureba aho ari naho yiriwe hariya hantu rero munzibutso arizo mubyaro ari nizi zikomeye. Ahubwo ngewe imyaka makumyabiri uvuze ndabona ari myinshi kuko hari naho ubona zatantiye no kononekara. Hari aharidutse hari ahari ibigunda usanga baragiramo amatungo ntago rero kwibuka ariby’abacitse ku icumu nta nubwo ari ibya leta kuko leta ni abaturage. Niby’abanyarwanda bose kwibuka simbona rero impamvu umuntu aturanye na site njya ngira urugero rwa hariya ikanombe. Kuri kaburimbo bigeze kuhashyira cloture y’ibyuma ariko barayibye bayimazeho umuntu ujya kwiba kuri site memorial abagiye gukoresha iki ibyo bintu ? Ukibaza uti uru nurugo rwaba bantu bantu batakireba ku isi ariko n’urugo rwabo. Ngewe rero nkabona abantu bakagombye kubishyira mu nshingano zabo noneho tukagira n’amahirwe haje inzego zo hasi umudugudu. Imidugudu ukareba site ziri iwabo bakareba bakazitaho bakareba niba ari ahaharurwa hagaharurwa ikigomba gukorwa cyose kigakorwa bakabishyira muri gahunda. Leta kandi ni abaturage leta si ministeri si ku karere leta ni ngewe nawe nundi uri aho ngaho twese tugafatanya niko mbyumva. Martin:Kugirango wenda tugana k’umusozo nubwo habayeho jenocide ariko ntabwo tuzayibagirwa. Kandi nta nubwo twumva twakwifuzako yakongera kubaho hagati aha rero nagirango nsabe ese mwumva dukurikije ibihe twanyuzemo nibyo twabonye twumva twifuzako bitazongera. Wumva waraga abana bazavuka ejo hazaza uko b’u rwanda rwejo batigeze baba muri ibi bintu. Wabaraga kuzabaraga mu rwanda rwaba rumeze rute ugereranije nuru twabayemo ? Josephine:Mubyukuri ahubwo mbona umurage waratangiye gukorwa nuko haba harimo za kidobya iyo ntekereje ko nta mwana ugihagurutswa mu ijuri kubera ubwoko bwe. Uko bidakorwa mu ishuri byakagombye no kudakorwa mu ngo z’abantu kuko burya imico mibi yigishirizwa munzu. Ku ishyiga niko bakunda kubivuga abaturage ababyeyi nitwe turaga abana bacu ibyiza cyangwa ibibi. Mwarimu ahabwa inshingano ahabwa ibyo yigisha ariko ntawe ujya gu controrwa ariko ntawe ujya gukontrola urugo rw’umuntu. Ariko rwose mbona ababyeyi mbona dukwiye kwigisha abana gukundana urubyiruko rugasabana ubona ikintu cy’ubusabane bagenda bakora. Ubundi politike yacu ninziza leta y’ubumwe ninziza kuko irashaka ko abantu bose babana ariko iwacu munzu. Niho habi kandi ntawe uzahacontrola ngo amenye ngo barigisha iki ariko buhoro buhoro urabona jenocide bayigishije imyaka mirongo ine ubu tumaze imyaka cumi n’itatu twigisha kubana mu mahoro. Tugize amahoro bigakomeza abana bacu bazabana mu mahoro bakabana mu rwanda rutarimo umwiryane rutarimo nubwoko. Ariko harandutse ko abakuru aritwe tubanza kubirandurwamo bwa mbere byibanze ngewe nkifuzako leta yashyiraho umwete yanga igisa n’ijambo ribi ryose riganisha kuri jenocide. Urikoze akarihanirwa kumugaragaro ndetse akarusha uwafashe umuhoro umuhoro burya ufatwa nuwabanje kuvuga nuko njye mbyumva abana bacu ntawe mvanguye baragwa kubona amahoro. Martin:Sinzi niba hari icyo wakongeraho kuri iki kiganiro twari tugiranye wenda dusoza. Josephine:Nta kindi uretse gushimira ko mwatekereje kuza kumbaza kandi ibi bintu bikajya niba nawe wagira icyo umbwira niba wumvise bifatika. Byaba bidafatika ibidafatika ukabikuramo ibifite icyo bimaze ukabirekeramo.Bikazaba ikitegererezo cy’abandi murakoze.
Dock windowView English Translation
Testimony of Murebwayire Josephine
Martin: Today is 5th of March 2007 I am here in Kimironko at Murebwayire Josephine’s home. We would like you to introduce yourself to us as we are about to talk about what happened in the genocide.
Josephine: My names are Murebwayire Josephine. I live in Kimironko in the sector of Nyagatovu in the district of Gasabo.
Martin: We would like you to tell us about your life with your family before the genocide, how big was your family? Explain to us and tell us how big your family was; your children, your husband and then after try and give us an idea or paint an image for us on how your life was before the genocide.
Josephine: Before the genocide we lived in a place called Masoro. At that time it was called Ndera sector. Commune Rubungo is where we lived, nowadays it’s called Gasabo district. I had a husband with six children. Three boys and three girls, we also had a child that we had adopted, my husband’s niece. We were living in harmony, we had a nice family, our standard of life was good, and my husband was working.
He was a self employed mechanic and I was a mother at home with the children even though I had other things to do because we had a small shop. So I was in a business and we also had a nice piece of land and cows. I was supervising all the activities at home, we were doing great.
My children were growing up and were in secondary school. The oldest was in senior four and the youngest was in primary five. We also lived with my two brothers. One had just gotten married and he lived near us, we were a big nice family.
The genocide rally started in 1990, that's when we heard that the Inkotanyi (RPF) had attacked. They said they came from Byumba on the 1st of October 1990. We all didn't know what it was when we heard about it with our neighbors.
On the 7th of October 1990 that’s when they came to arrest my husband saying he was a spy for the Inkotanyi. They didn’t find him at home, because even though they had said that nobody should leave their homes, my brother went to the shop to work because it was near the house. So my husband also went to see how things were at the shop, the people who were coming to arrest him only found me and the children at home.
So they took me first but before that they were doing bad things; searching the house and throwing things around, hitting me with their gun-butt asking me where I had hidden the gun that we had. On the 4th of October 1990 they had spent the night shooting in the air and they said that we were the ones that were shooting Kigali. They kept asking me about the gun but they couldn’t find it but they found binoculars that my husband used when hunting, he did it with priests.
When they saw it they said that we use it to look at the Inkotanyi, they had just got a reason. There were also water bottles that my children used to take water at school. They said it belonged to soldiers and they started beating me but not too much, telling me to show them everything else I had hidden and show them the Inkotanyi.
When they didn’t get the guns they took me in the car and said that if they get my husband they will release me. When we reached near the shop we saw him. So I said to them, there is my husband, he is coming. They stopped and told him to enter the car and go give them the gun I had promised them but couldn’t give it away without his permission. So I protested that they had just lied and they told me to get out of the car and watch over the kids saying that they will bring him back later.
They took my husband and I went back home to watch over the kids but at that moment you could see that our neighbors started looking at us like we were cockroaches and stigmatizing us. I went home and rearranged everything they had disorganized and thrown around, wheat and sugar. They were very confused. I called all my children and started comforting them telling them that they almost took me, dad was taken, they might come back and take me too but do not be afraid.
We were a praying family, so I was a firm believer that no matter what happens God knows and is in control, so I comforted them and told them that even if their father does not return we will live, telling them that I will do all my best and work hard and provide.
I didn’t believe that he was going, for two months I would prepare food and keep it in the cupboard for him. Nobody was even reaching our home anymore; if I came close to someone they would seem afraid that I was going to cause them trouble. So I would wake up and go home, Rubungo is far from Kigali and nobody would direct me where he might be.
In December we were told that we can go ask at CICR [Comité International de la Croix-Rouge] about our people who were put in jail. I didn’t know the place so someone directed me but I got lost and went to president Habyarimana’s house in Kiyovu. Soldiers made me sit down and asked for my identity card and then they said that I was a cockroach but I denied it telling them I wasn’t a cockroach. They asked me where I was going and I told them CICR so they said I was going to see spies, no someone called me to offer me a job, I said.
So they told me raise my hands and walk away singing there is no way here. One of the soldiers showed me the place and I walked away saying what they had asked me to say, when I reached there I asked and they told me they were going to check in the computer, I didn’t even know what a computer was. So when they checked they said that he wasn’t on the list with everyone else may be he died, they said.
I started crying hysterically, a white lady saw me and she came and asked me what was wrong? I replied to her that I had been told that if I come at their office they would tell me about my loved one who is in jail. My husband was taken, now I am being told that he is not on the lists. So she told me to go home and come back in three days. After three days I came back, she had asked me to give her the names of my husband. She told me that my husband was in prison.
So I started going to visit him at the 1930 prison but didn’t see him until he was released six months after just like everyone else. We were not allowed to see our loved ones; they told us to just bring whatever we were bringing for them on the last Thursday of the month, telling us that it would be delivered to them. So whatever we would take we would give it to the guards as they were threatening and beating us, there was no certainty that our loved ones would get it.
He was released after six months and came back home, but from that point we were not sure what was going to happen next, but after a while it was peaceful and life seemed to return to normal. In 1992 that’s when we started hearing about the killings in Bugesera, Bigogwe and he would say that may be it won’t reach our region, we thought they were just selecting and killing men. When he would walk out I would keep thinking that he won’t return but we never thought that it would be as bad as it was in 1994. He went back to work and went on with life as usual and then everything else happened as you know in 1994.
Martin: In 1994 they say that the genocide and killings started after Habyarimana’s plane was shot down? But I think the way it started depended on the region and the place where one stayed. How did you know that the genocide had started in the place where you stayed? Did you know that Habyarimana’s plane was shot down? How did all the events unfold in your lives, I would like you to explain and tell us?
Josephine: The place where we stayed was just opposite Kanombe, it was in the valley but you could see everything that happens in Kanombe. When the plane was shot down we didn’t know what it was but heard a loud explosion, it was at night and we were sleeping, we didn’t have electricity so that we can stay up late. We were in bed but not really asleep, in fact we were still talking but when heard the explosion we didn’t give it much thought and we went on sleeping.
At 5 am my husband turned on the radio and it was playing classical music so he said there was a coup-d’état, when we were starting to argue about it. There was an announcement on the radio, am not sure if it was from the president’s office or the military command but it said that the plane carrying the president had crashed. We were terrified and woke up, I said to him that it's over for us but instead he said no the one who wanted us dead is gone and you are saying its over for us, I replied and said that we were not going to live instead it was over.
As we were still arguing we heard a knock at the back door, so I woke up and went to open the door where I met with soldiers. They lie but the genocide didn’t start in 1994, if it had then they wouldn’t have found me straight away. They knew where to find everybody and who to kill, it was planned long ago, the plane just marked the beginning. That’s when they started working but that’s not when the genocide started. They were already well trained and had planned, so I say that’s the day when it was implemented and perfected. That’s when the genocide was over even though that’s when it started, so the soldiers came with one of our children showing them the way. They found him on the way, Tutsis were being hunted and him being one they got him and he brought them. They had list with many names and ours were at the top of the list.
When I opened I saw them and they said that I must be happy and they asked for the people who shot down the president’s plane. I said there was nobody here and told them that we cannot be happy because someone else died. Didn’t you hate him, they said? Can we hate someone we don’t even know or does he know us? We heard it like everyone else. Aren’t the cockroaches that shot it down your relatives? Aren’t they here? Show us where your husband is? I took them to the room where he was sleeping.
They took me and the children and locked us in the kitchen with the workers and then they came back in the house and said to him give us money. I don’t have money, he replied. You will give it to us, they said. He told them that they had found him sleeping and asked them to look for it. They didn’t just let him go, they beat him and he gave them all the money he had on him. They said to him, your wife must be keeping a lot of money; women are the ones that keep money. They opened the door for me and kept the children locked up, and then they told me to give them the money that my husband had told them that I was the one keeping it.
I told them that I didn’t have any money as they kept asking for it. So I said to them, why don’t you take whatever you want and leave us in peace, it is clear that you came for a purpose. So they took whatever they could manage as they were going away and said that they were only there looking for what to take but those who were going to kill us were on their way.
They went away and then around 9 we saw the wives of all the Tutsis on one of the hills coming towards our house. We had a big compound, so I asked them why they were coming at our home when it was the first place where they look, we are the ones they arrested first as spies, why did you come here? No, maybe we’ll die together or something like that but we are not leaving this place. The men had not yet thought about fleeing, so we stayed there and at around one in the afternoon we saw a lot of people.
Walking on the opposite hill, they were many and coming from Remera with bags, so we said to ourselves that we should also flee, but the men stayed there. My two brothers and my two elder sons also stayed home and I went with the four remaining children with the girl that we had adopted and the other women that we were together. When we reached a bit farther some people started blocking our way stopping us from moving forward but we didn’t know that they were Interahamwe fleeing Inkotanyi from Remera.
But we didn’t know what was happening and started separating some going through the banana plantations, others going on along the way. We left home during the day but almost reaching our destination, a place called Ndera it wasn’t possible because we met someone who told us that there was a road block just ahead.
The others continued to a place called Jurwe, me and my children we went and hid in a place where there was cassava when we saw a police car, we stayed there until it was dark in the evening. We went on but decided not to go to Ndera but instead went to a place called Musave, it was dark and we couldn’t see but reaching there found that that’s where everyone took refuge, there was a school.
So I asked the people I was with to force the door open of one of the classrooms since all the other classrooms seemed full. I didn’t know that I was telling Interahamwe, I thought I was telling my people. They forced the door open and we spent the night there with the workers. With other children that were our neighbors. In the morning around 8 am I saw that the others were cooking but I hadn’t taken anything except for sugar that I had remembered. I went to borrow a saucepan so that I can prepare tea for my children. After I had borrowed the saucepan I was told that a car full of Interahamwe was on its way. I threw away the saucepan and started tying a piece of the loincloth that I had on every child so that I won’t leave them on the way.
I had very bad memories because I got lost in the forest when my family was fleeing in 1963. I was found by some people, so I felt that if I let go of my child they would also get lost. So I pulled them and when we reached a little bit further we saw a car and inside was a guy from our region but he was an Interahamwe. He was a driver of the commune and was coming to take his family which had also spent the night in the same place with us. I recognized him and I asked him if he could also take me with my children, he spit in my face and asked me where I was going since it was over for us. He packed his family in the car and left.
So I kept pulling my children behind me as we walked towards Ndera, when we were almost there at a place called Musave. We saw a car with the head of region of Rubungo and another man that was also from our region who was also coming to see his family which had spent the night in the same place with us. I told him that his children had left; they were told that their mother was alive.
So, he put us in the car and took us to Ndera at the Catholic parish. He said, your husband and sons are at the Catholic parish let me take you there. Before reaching the parish we reached a place called Mugahoromani and there was a roadblock. There were policemen and other peasants, one of them got a spear and was ready to throw it at me and the man told him that if he throws it at me he will shoot him. They let us go.
We reached the parish, other people were in the seminary a little bit further, the head priest came and welcomed us, he lives in Nyamata now. He is called Rugengamanzi, he was the head priest. He welcomed us; he had even given them food to cook. So they welcomed us and gave us food and we were comforted that we had got refuge. But personally I didn’t want to stay at the parish because there was a man that we were not at good terms with since my husband was imprisoned among the spies.
A priest called Gakuba always looked for me telling people that I was a spy, that we were cockroaches, always looking for a reason that I would stop me from coming to church or cause other people to harm me. So I told my husband that the place had no fence and people were walking in and out at ease and also told him that if Gakuba sees us he will kill us. So I told him that instead we go to the seminary, it was the 8th. So we made sure nobody saw us and then went to the seminary which was not very far away.
With all my children and brothers we went to the seminary where we spent the night. There was a hall and we spent the night praying because things were not well. The interim government was put in place, that’s when we found out that we were mixed with Interahamwe because they started celebrating, all of a sudden we didn’t talk the same language. We spent the night in a lot of fear, in the morning of the 9th, I don’t remember well if the interim government was put in place on the 8th or 9th but it’s around that time. So on the morning of the 9th. Interahamwe came, first a man called Mbonampeka who used to be the minister of justice came and said to the priests of the seminary, why don’t you let these people go back home? Don’t you have cockroaches among them?
The priests replied to him that all the people they had there were their Christians and no there were no cockroaches among them and that they can’t send the people home since the threat that caused them to seek refuge was still eminent. There is still a war going on out there, let them stay here they are ok when it's all over they will go back home. So you don’t want to let them go? Let them go and we will give them soldiers to protect them, Mbonapeka said. Those people who are going to protect them cannot protect every single one of them, let them protect them from here. Mbonampeka went away and after a short while he came back with soldiers and shot the priests.
They were Hutu priests; one was Bisop Nsegiyumva’s nephew, he was called Naniya Rugasira and the other was Ananiya, he died on the spot. One who is called Andre now lives at St. Michael’s, they died on the spot. So they said whoever is Hutu walk out with your identity card.
So people started walking out showing their identity cards and the ones who didn’t show it, it was still visible. Young Tutsi men who tried to hide in the crowd were shot from the gate. We didn’t know what to do, two of my older boys so the other people going out and came to see us where we were seated. They waved goodbye at us and said that we will meet in heaven, they jumped the fence and ran away with one of my brothers.
We stayed there on the 9th, on the 10th the Interahamwe kept coming to see how we were praying, we knew that it was over for us. We didn’t see any way out, there were roadblocks all over. On the 11th in the morning around 9 am that’s when the Interahamwe came. There were very many and said, you took all of Habyarimana’s money when your Inkotanyi and cockroaches, give us our father’s money. And whoever we find with even a coin will be killed, me and my husband didn’t have anything except wearing a lot of clothes, we didn’t have any money on us.
So whoever had money gave it away, but they didn’t really want money they were just toying with us. After that they tried to throw a grenade where we were. And then a lady who was wearing clothes with pearls came in with another man who had a bow with arrows; they had a list with some names. On the list was a man called Pastor, Rukanika, Nkundabarashe and my husband, but they didn’t call out my husband a lot, they called out for Pastor and Rukanika.
There was also another young man called Mutsinzi that they were looking for, they put a bead cover on him which made him look like a woman. He tried to run away but they shot him, and then they saw my husband and said, here is the head of all the cockroaches, stand up, they said.
They also told my two daughters to stand up and took them outside but they didn’t see me because I was behind some other women. And then they tried to rape my daughters, Pastor told me this since he survived. He was watching from where he was hiding. Do you want to rape us and hurt us, go ahead and kill us we are supposed to die anyway, my daughters said. The woman removed their clothes and wore them, they were wearing trousers. She said to them, go back you will die at the same time with everyone else no one is going to waste any time. They brought them back inside the house and then the lady saw me and said, we took the child and forgot the mother, remove all your clothes. They watched as I removed all my clothes.
I removed all my clothes and gave them to her as they walked away and only remained with a small dress I had on. After around 10 minutes that’s when they came back and shot a woman called Makurata, the wife of Pastor. They shot her legs and asked her to stand up when they had shot her legs; they dragged her as they took us all out.
They were so many I think each one of us had two people to kill him, they took us in a field that was there and asked us to lie down. If you didn’t lie down they would hack you with a machete, it was all the same whether you lied down or stood, we lied down. My last memory is that I lied down holding hands with my daughter. And I put the others on my side, I didn’t want to part with them, they told us to lie down with our stomachs on the ground, they knew how they wanted it done.
My last memory was lying on the ground. I regained consciousness only to see that I was hacked. I think it was on the 11th, at around 6pm is when it started raining and I felt like I was waking up. But trying to lift my head I couldn’t, my head was wide open and my teeth outside, soaked in blood all over. I tried to stand up and then I fell on the ground again, the Interahamwe came back.
They came to see who was still breathing, they had hacked everyone so they would just lift someone off the ground throw them back down to see who was still alive. So they walked around and then at night I tried to lift myself up but it was very hard, I think my brain was out where they had hacked and cut me. It’s just that God kept me otherwise they had hacked me just like everyone else.
So I thought to myself that the others will also wake up since I had also woken up after being hacked. I sat there among all those corpses and then all of a sudden the Interahamwe came back. I went to drink water and then as one of the Interahamwe was about the hack me with a machete another asked him, you have hacked this woman so many times aren’t you satisfied? She isn’t really alive and even if she lives let her die of sorrow, leave her alone.
They went away and then I saw a priest standing in front of a praying room that’s where they had put Ananiya’s corpse. I went towards him, I knew him but he didn’t recognize me because of the way I had become, I asked him to hide me inside since the Interahamwe were coming back and they were going to kill me badly. They have said that they are coming in a short while to kill me. Go and hide in that garden with fruits, he said.
There was a garden that was in front of the praying room that had spinach and some other plants. I went there, I don’t know if he is the one that covered me with those plants or God but all I know is that they came back looking for me to finish me off and they couldn’t find me. They walked away saying, where is the woman that was here, where did she go since the priest didn’t let her in? They looked for me and then said, even if she is still alive she is not coming back tomorrow. I spent the night there and then in the morning around 5am, I went back and looked at the corpses, looking at my children and I could see their brains, I looked at my husband. I couldn’t see where they had hacked him but he died holding another man’s hand, they died holding each others hands.
So I sat among the corpses and then after a while I asked myself what I was doing then I walked around and then decided to go in the toilet. Let me hide in the toilet, I was thinking to myself that if they return except killing me they were also going to do other bad things, I was really afraid they were going to rape me. So I went in the student’s toilets, I looked for the filthiest and went in it.
I said to myself that if they come to use the bathroom they won’t go in the dirtiest, I stood behind the door and that is exactly what happened. They kept coming to use the toilets but they didn’t enter in the one I was in.
After around three days they were still going through the bodies checking if there were no survivors. After three days is when Mbonampeka brought fuel, piled up all the corpses and then burnt them, I heard them saying it from the toilet. They piled and burnt them and then dug a hole in front of the praying room and threw them in and then covered it and left.
But I kept saying to myself that maybe one my children was alive just like I was, because the way they had made me I wasn’t meant to be alive. And then I would say that maybe my boys who ran away at least there is one who survived, I hid myself because I thought there was a survivor. So I stayed in that toilet two three days without drinking anything, I had lost so much blood till there was no more to bleed.
On the fifth day is when a student from that seminary came, they had hacked people and corpses fell on him but they didn’t really hack him but he was wounded a little bit. On the hand, people that worked in the seminary hid him in their kitchen and covered him with some supplies but the people who came to loot took them. But they didn’t see him, that’s when he came where I was in the toilet and he heard someone breathing faintly like I was going to die. He peeped through and saw me; he is the one who gave me water to drink. He would give me tiny little droplets on my tongue. He would say to me that if I drink a lot, the water would kill me. We stayed in that toilet and were joined by other children.
More people kept coming slowly; by the time we left we were around five people. We stayed there until May 1st, that’s when they helped us from there; we were also joined by another young boy who also studied in the seminary.
I don’t know where he got a knife or a razor blade, he is the one that shaved me, my hair was stuck in my wounds and he couldn’t remove it. The Inkotanyi doctors are the ones that treated my wounds; they started treating me from Ndera. My wounds were rotten and I didn’t think that they would heal or even if they healed that I would be normal again. But they treated me and then they took me to Byumba, that’s where I was treated from.
So all my six children, my husband, my brothers and my sister-in-law. They are all dead, but I didn’t know that they were all dead. I thought that my two sons were alive, I kept saying to myself that they ran away, they are not dead. I kept thinking that maybe they are alive, there is even someone who told me that my daughter was alive. So I asked them, where is she? Some would say Kabuga, others would say Goma, I didn’t really know what to make of it.
But I realized that she was not alive, so I lived in Byumba at a place I think that was called Social. So one of my cousin-brother from my mother’s side is the one that moved me from there and started helping me. But when we were coming from Ndera I saw they way my children had died and said. Maybe someone took my children adopting and helping them, even me let me help some.
I had been traumatized I didn’t want any child to suffer so I reached Byumba when I had around five children when my cousin-brother was coming to take me. I took some of them in an orphanage; I gave the other one to a soldier who turned him into a kadogo/ child soldier.
After the war I came back home but they were just ruins, they had destroyed everything. One of my nephews, he is the one that got a a house for us, I went in with some of his siblings. I became their mother but they got a relative who took them abroad.
I never got to a point where I felt discouraged and didn’t want to live without a child. I was mature and able to look for what I needed to eat. I felt that a child wouldn’t be able to get what to eat on his/her own and hence always had to live with a parent. That’s how I got orphans and took care of them and when they would find their family they would go and stay with them and if not they stay with me.
Martin: You told me that the people that came to kill you were in Ndera?
Josephine: Mmm, at the seminary.
Martin: Looking at where you lived its evident that it’s a long distance from where they killed you from. Were those Interahamwe from the region where you lived or from somewhere else?
Josephine: The Interahamwe would take turns, those from Ndera would go to Kanombe, and those from Kanombe would go to Ndera. The Interahamwe that killed from the seminary must have been from Kanombe. Even those from Kanombe were with soldiers, also those from our region, because my eldest sons fled and went back on our hill where we lived. With my one brother that’s where they died from but I didn’t know about it.
I kept looking for them, in 1997 is when we went to bury the remains that had been scattered on our hill. I am among the first people that were eager to bury, saying that I am burying my children and the remains of my relatives, but I later found out that they were not the ones we had buried. We buried again for the second time. They would tell me that they are in this particular place, wherever they would show me bones I would not look for signs and I would think to myself finally I have got them.
Recently in April 2005 is when we buried. Someone convinced me that he knew where they were buried saying he was the one who had buried them, lets go I show them to you. I excavated twenty three people and buried them at Gisozi. They are very big graves with crosses written on their names but I realized that he was lying to me. I don’t know if he knew what he was doing or not but I was really shocked.
In Gacaca there was a child who knew my children, he/she was their age mate, he/she is the one that clarified and said that they were thrown in a latrine.
That’s when they were excavated in October and we buried them in December and I saw signs that it was really them, like identity cards. School cards and their clothes but they were just bones because they had decomposed. So we got them from a sixteen meters pit latrine with other people that were thrown in with them. And for that cause on our hill we buried two hundred and fifty people knowing exactly who was who because their bodies were visible and their identity cards.
[That day we excavated two hundred and fifty people, before that people kept lying to us and we would excavate the wrong people.] We buried a lot of times burying people who we were not related to but we were burying Rwandans. We don’t regret it but they toyed with us, always excavating and burying. Burying the wrong people.
Martin: Lets talk again about burying a lot of times burying the wrong people, the people who were directing you on where to excavate were they your neighbors? Looking closely, how would someone say that somebody died from a certain place even when they are lying to you? The people who were telling you where to excavate where your neighbors?
Josephine: Yes they were our neighbors; the one who even told me that he had buried my children himself was even a genocide survivor. I asked him why he did and it almost turned us into enemies but then I said to myself that there was no point. The ones who killed them are the ones that caused the lies, had I been a bad person I would have probably had followed him around in anger.
I said that these were the consequences of the genocide on me, it was the second time, before I use to tell him that I am going to remember, I didn’t do anything without telling him as a fellow survivor, telling him that today I am going to pray and remember and he would come. I even asked him why he had taken so long without telling me where my children were buried and he said that he didn’t want me to get traumatized.
And I told him that I couldn’t get traumatized it was all the same since every 11th of April I would have prayers to remember them. Why didn’t you let me get traumatized once and for all but at least bury them, so in Gacaca that child said where they were buried. I called him and even thought that the child is the one who was lying to me, we almost started arguing but I realized I would be disrespecting myself and didn’t want any confrontation with him. I ignored him and said that I was just feeling the consequences of the genocide so I decided to fight them they way I normally fight but the other thing is that in 1995.
Dock windowTable of Contents
Testimony of MUREBWAYIRE Josephine
Pre-Genocide Experience
Family Life
Incarceration of Husband
Genocide Experience
Flight
Killings of Family
Hiding
Post-Genocide Experience
Medical Care
Adoptions
Reburials of Family
Dock windowView People
Ananiya (Hutu priest)
Andre (Hutu priest)
Gakuba (priest)
Habyarimana Juvenal
Makurata (wife of Pastor)
Mbonampeka
Murebwayire Josephine
(introduction of)
(introduction by)
Mutsinzi
Naniya Rugasira (nephew of Bishop Nsengiyumva, Hutu priest)
Nkundabarashe
Nsegiyumva (Bishop)
Pastor
Rukanika
Dock windowView Places
Bigogwe
Bugesera
Byumba
Gasabo (go to page)
Kimironko
Kicukiro (go to page)
Kanombe
Kigali
Kiyovu (where Habyarimana lived)
Masoro (previously Ndera sector)
Musave
Ndera (now Masoro)
Nyamata
Remera
Rubungo (now Gasabo)
St. Michael's
Dock windowView Topics
Discrimination and Persecution (go to page)
Anti-Tutsi Measures and Legislation
Beatings
Killings of Aid Givers
Mass Graves
Racism
Epithets
Inyenzi/Cockroaches
Roadblocks
Family Life (go to page)
Adoptions
Deaths of Loved Ones
Funerals and Burials
People by Family Relationship
Brother
Children
Husband
Search for Loved Ones
Search for Remains of Loved Ones
Famous and Infamous People
Habyarimana Juvenal
Government and Political Life
Death of Habyarimana Juvenal
Hiding (go to page)
Hiding (general)
Hiding in Churches
Hiding in Gardens
Hiding in Groups
Hiding in Schools
Hiding in Toilets
Food in Hiding
Prayer in Hiding
Incarceration
Release From Incarceration
Liberation and Post-Liberation Life
AVEGA-AGAHOZO: Association des Veuves du Genocide
Medical Care
Opening of Mass Graves
Orphans
Post-War Visits Home
Living Conditions
Living Conditions Pre-Genocide
Military (go to page)
Inkotanyi
Interahamwe
Psychological, Emotional and Cognitive Experience (go to page)
Attitudes Toward Hutus
Fear of Rape/Sexual Molestation
Post-War Reflection upon Genocide
Responses to Persecution and Totalitarian Rule
Red Cross, International
Struggle for Survival
Survival of Mass Executions
Dock windowView Map
Loading Google Maps...